Cont: Brexit: Now What? Part 6. Pick up sticks...

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FWIIW;

Those that moan there is a campaign to have another referendum, need to remember that they would have also been campaigning for another referendum if the vote had been 51.9% remain. Scotland and NI voted to remain. There are many Scots who want another referendum on independence.

There needs to be a decision and change in the law to bring clarity to what happens with a referendum and in particular, how long till it can be run again?

The situation now is very different and much clearer than it was in June 2016, in certain ways. For example, people now know that the NHS will not just get the EU money and our borders were largely already under UK control. In other ways the situation is less clear, as we do not know what of various alternatives is going to happen. No deal, Norway light, May's deal or something else.

More people need to understand that the country is very divided and so there is no such thing as a "good" deal. A "good" deal is one with a majority of people happy with it. Those who claim to have a better deal than others do not have any significant majority support from the people, the press or in Parliament. We cannot do a "good" deal. Then the EU are not going to allow a "good" deal, because you cannot leave the club and get a better membership than those who remain. Those who think we can tear up May's deal and go and get a better one are fantasists who have not yet twigged that the EU have more of the cards than we have and they are better players.
 
Nessie said:
Those that moan there is a campaign to have another referendum, need to remember that they would have also been campaigning for another referendum if the vote had been 51.9% remain.
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Quite. Nigel Fromage said he wouldn't accept a narrow Remain vote as the end of the matter, so why should we? Factor in the lies told by Brexit, the illegal overspending and the shifting demographic since 2016, and the case for another referendum is unanswerable.
 
jeremyp said:
Huh?

The referendum was created by the Labour government and, because of an amendment by a Labour MP that 40% of the registered voters had to be in favour, the result was to reject devolution. The Labour government withdrew the devolution bill in accordance with the rules. The Conservative party had nothing to do with it.
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The amendment was introduced by a Labour MP but opposed by the Labour Government. How did it get passed?

The Labour government was also dissolved shortly after the vote and Maggie took over. And she ignored the result of the referendum which was not to reject devolution but was in favour of devolution.

The Tories have consistently been against devolution for the constituent parts of the UK regardless of results in referenda. So to suggest otherwise is simply dishonest. TM is lying. Again.
 
Nessie said:
FWIIW;

Those that moan there is a campaign to have another referendum, need to remember that they would have also been campaigning for another referendum if the vote had been 51.9% remain. Scotland and NI voted to remain. There are many Scots who want another referendum on independence.

There needs to be a decision and change in the law to bring clarity to what happens with a referendum and in particular, how long till it can be run again?

The situation now is very different and much clearer than it was in June 2016, in certain ways. For example, people now know that the NHS will not just get the EU money and our borders were largely already under UK control. In other ways the situation is less clear, as we do not know what of various alternatives is going to happen. No deal, Norway light, May's deal or something else.

More people need to understand that the country is very divided and so there is no such thing as a "good" deal. A "good" deal is one with a majority of people happy with it. Those who claim to have a better deal than others do not have any significant majority support from the people, the press or in Parliament. We cannot do a "good" deal. Then the EU are not going to allow a "good" deal, because you cannot leave the club and get a better membership than those who remain. Those who think we can tear up May's deal and go and get a better one are fantasists who have not yet twigged that the EU have more of the cards than we have and they are better players.
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My only concern with a second vote is that it would once again be muddied by people proposing things that are not on the table. If Corbyn is still going on about leaving but with a magical deal that he can negotiate or if others ar prattling on about Norway+ or whatever.

Any second vote has to be based on concrete options and there only appear to be 3. Leave with this deal, leave with no deal, don't leave.
 
Ian Osborne said:
Quite. Nigel Fromage said he wouldn't accept a narrow Remain vote as the end of the matter, so why should we? Factor in the lies told by Brexit, the illegal overspending and the shifting demographic since 2016, and the case for another referendum is unanswerable.
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Nigel has threatened us with standing as an MP and losing yet another election if he doesn't get his way. Fud.
 
Archie Gemmill Goal said:
My only concern with a second vote is that it would once again be muddied by people proposing things that are not on the table. If Corbyn is still going on about leaving but with a magical deal that he can negotiate or if others ar prattling on about Norway+ or whatever.

Any second vote has to be based on concrete options and there only appear to be 3. Leave with this deal, leave with no deal, don't leave.
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I would like a multiple choice referendum, which would be those 3 plus have a Norway type membership.

One reason for having a multiple choice would be to reduce the plain in/out divide and show it is more complicated than that.
 
202 ayes, 432 noes. Ouch.

Edit: May now inviting Corby to move a motion of no confidence, to be debated tomorrow should he do so tonight.
 
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Corbyn has taken up the invitation and tabled a motion of no confidence. I doubt he has the numbers for it, but now I know what I'm doing tomorrow.
 
jeremyp said:
Yes it does. It's one of only two ways to force an early election, the other being a vote to have one with a two thirds majority.



Following a vote of no confidence, the government has two weeks to get enough votes together for a an explicit vote of confidence. If it fails in that, there must be a general election.
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No the act tightened up on what could be considered a vote of no confidence that could trigger a dissolution of parliament, only certain types of votes are now considered to be a vote that can trigger a GE. This is what she has just said she would create time for tomorrow and Corbyn has now tabled such a vote.
 
Nessie said:
FWIIW;

Those that moan there is a campaign to have another referendum, need to remember that they would have also been campaigning for another referendum if the vote had been 51.9% remain. Scotland and NI voted to remain. There are many Scots who want another referendum on independence.

There needs to be a decision and change in the law to bring clarity to what happens with a referendum and in particular, how long till it can be run again?

The situation now is very different and much clearer than it was in June 2016, in certain ways. For example, people now know that the NHS will not just get the EU money and our borders were largely already under UK control. In other ways the situation is less clear, as we do not know what of various alternatives is going to happen. No deal, Norway light, May's deal or something else.

More people need to understand that the country is very divided and so there is no such thing as a "good" deal. A "good" deal is one with a majority of people happy with it. Those who claim to have a better deal than others do not have any significant majority support from the people, the press or in Parliament. We cannot do a "good" deal. Then the EU are not going to allow a "good" deal, because you cannot leave the club and get a better membership than those who remain. Those who think we can tear up May's deal and go and get a better one are fantasists who have not yet twigged that the EU have more of the cards than we have and they are better players.
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Just checked and yet again I've confirmed that neither Scotland nor NI had a referendum, it was a UK referendum.
 
KDLarsen said:
Corbyn has taken up the invitation and tabled a motion of no confidence. I doubt he has the numbers for it, but now I know what I'm doing tomorrow.
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Just heard Mogg says he will of course support the government in the vote of no confidence.... You couldn't make him up.
 
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