Mueller Investigation pt4

[Stacyhs]

Trump Tweets

Wow, 19,000 Texts between Lisa Page and her lover, Peter S of the FBI, in charge of the Russia Hoax, were just reported as being wiped clean and gone. Such a big story that will never be covered by the Fake News. Witch Hunt!

"Russia Hoax"? Is Trump still claiming Russia did not interfere in the 2016 election?
I find Trump's need to identify Peter S as Pages's "lover" just his typical need to be nasty. It's similar to always referring to Stormy Daniels as "porn star Daniels".

 

[Darat]

"Russia Hoax"? Is Trump still claiming Russia did not interfere in the 2016 election?
I find Trump's need to identify Peter S as Pages's "lover" just his typical need to be nasty. It's similar to always referring to Stormy Daniels as "porn star Daniels".

To be fair it is a much more respectful way of describing her, otherwise it would be "the woman I had sex with Daniels". Now that would be being disrespectful!

 

[Steve]

Are you then asserting that they did produce the Flynn 302 as was fraudulently asserted yesterday?

I am asserting that the reaction of the judge to the submitted documents will determine if the submittal meets his requirements. I am also asserting that that is the only thing that matters regarding this submittal. My opinion, and yours, have no relevance.

 

[The Big Dog]

I am asserting that the reaction of the judge to the submitted documents will determine if the submittal meets his requirements. I am also asserting that that is the only thing that matters regarding this submittal. My opinion, and yours, have no relevance.

Mine is not an opinion, it is a fact that 1. The order required the filing of all 302s relating to the Flynn interview. 2. The government did not produce the 302 of the Flynn interview.

Those are facts.

 

[a_unique_person]

Popehat defended him in the sense of what he did shouldn't be illegal. Popehat is not pro Trump.

No, he didn't.

 

[BobTheCoward]

No, he didn't.

Here it is

https://mobile.twitter.com/Popehat/status/1073609056562991104

/11 Flynn was wrong to lie to the FBI. He should have lawyered up and/or told the truth. But what happened - the government convicting him because he told a lie they anticipated and never believed, that never hindered or delayed them -- is not right.

 

[Stacyhs]

Here it is

https://mobile.twitter.com/Popehat/status/1073609056562991104

That is not saying that "Popehat defended him in the sense of what he did shouldn't be illegal." It is saying that the way the FBI charged (not convicted) him with lying "isn't right". That not saying it shouldn't be '"illegal".

 

[BobTheCoward]

That is not saying that "Popehat defended him in the sense of what he did shouldn't be illegal." It is saying that the way the FBI charged (not convicted) him with lying "isn't right". That not saying it shouldn't be '"illegal".

He also called it "fundamentally unjust." But sure, we can't know iof a defense attorney thinks things that are unjust and not right should be crimes.

 

[Stacyhs]

He also called it "fundamentally unjust." But sure, we can't know iof a defense attorney thinks things that are unjust and not right should be crimes.

"...because he told a lie they anticipated and never believed, that never hindered or delayed them -- is not right."

He still freaking intentionally lied. THAT was the crime. THAT is illegal. It doesn't matter whether they never believed his lie or whether it hindered or delayed them". What a defense attorney thinks regarding the ethics of it doesn't matter. That is an opinion. He never said it should be illegal as you claimed.

I'm not going down the rabbit hole with you on this.

 

[BobTheCoward]

"...because he told a lie they anticipated and never believed, that never hindered or delayed them -- is not right."

He still freaking intentionally lied. THAT was the crime. THAT is illegal. It doesn't matter whether they never believed his lie or whether it hindered or delayed them". What a defense attorney thinks regarding the ethics of it doesn't matter. That is an opinion. He never said it should be illegal as you claimed.

I'm not going down the rabbit hole with you on this.

Popehat seems to think it was so significant that he made 13 tweets about it. What a defense attorney thinks of it does matter because the question is if he thought it should be legal.

 

[acbytesla]

The government didn't "convict" Flynn. He accepted a plea bargain: He admitted guilt to two relatively minor charges with limited potential jail time, in exchange for the government not prosecuting much more serious charges with much tougher consequences. Manafort lawyered up and went to trial, and he will very likely die in prison. Considering what we know about Flynn cozying up to Putin, Flynn should be sending Mueller big Christmas baskets every year forever.

This is why TBDs posts are nonsense. What Flynn plead guilty to was relatively minor and he agreed to this knowing the government could have sent him to prison for his other offenses. Flynn is not going to prison so why does TBD care about it? What matters about Flynn is all the other info he gave the government.

 

[BobTheCoward]

This is why TBDs posts are nonsense. What Flynn plead guilty to was relatively minor and he agreed to this knowing the government could have sent him to prison for his other offenses. Flynn is not going to prison so why does TBD care about it? What matters about Flynn is all the other info he gave the government.

If TBD views it like popehat, then it was a bad thing that he pled to an unjust law.

 

[varwoche]

From NPR: the Russian Investigation, a case still unproven.

https://www.npr.org/2018/12/15/676765398/the-russia-investigations-a-case-still-unproven

Makes some good points.

As the writer enumerates and discounts the possibilities, he somehow omits the most likely conduit for potential collusion, that being Roger Stone. Unimpressive.

I read it again. As a non-participant in modern social media, I don't know how to convey this:

Dear NPR,

If you're going to bend over backwards in order to appear fair, you should at least seek out a contributor who is familiar with the Trump / Russia landscape. Philip Ewing lists and discounts Cohen, Manafort, and Flynn as potential collusion actors. His failure to even mention the Roger Stone / Jerome Corsi connection is lacking in clues.​

 

[smartcooky]

Lets return this to some FACTS

FACT 1: When Mike Flynn talked to the Russian ambassador about sanctions, he violated 18 U.S.C. § 953, a.k.a. the Logan Act. This is a 200 Y.O. Statute (circa 1799) that criminalizes negotiations by unauthorized persons with foreign governments having a dispute with the United States. In cases such as Flynn's, although he technically violated this statute, the reality is that he was going to become NSA anyway, and it is not uncommon for incoming cabinet appointees to pre-emptively talk to foreign diplomats.

FACT 2: Flynn lied publicly about his contact with the Russian Ambassedor, and he lied to VP elect Mike Pence. Why? Why did he lie?

FACT 3: Lying to the FBI is a criminal offence.(Seriously, anyone in the USA who doesn't already know this must have been living under a flat stone for the bulk of their lives.)

FACT 4: There is no requirement for FBI agents to inform people they are interviewing that lying to them is a criminal offence. Some people have said he should have been Mirandarized; this is completely wrong. Flynn was not in custody; Miranda only applies in a custodial interrogation situation.

The only question worth pursuing is "Why did Flynn lie when he had no need to?" I have my own theory (which I mentioned earlier in this thread) that he was covering up something much, much bigger than his transgression of the Logan Act.

 

[Lurch]

Why are some folk (such as our resident canid) so fixated on the charged crime of lying, as though it's the ONLY wrong committed by Flynn? They should bloody well KNOW that this was the lightest of the lineup of potential charges levied in exchange for cooperation!

If Flynn had refused to get on board with Team America, he'd have had a crapload of far worse charges to answer to (in addition to lying.)

I just don't understand how these defenders of the indefensible remain so blinkered against the real world of flipping criminals. I mean, even junior high schoolers have a grasp of this; it ain't a hard concept to grok.

And it's a bit late to be griping and harping on and on and on about the 302.
Flynn has readily admitted his guilt; that horse has left the barn. To keep banging on about this only sprays about the flop sweat of desperate grasping at the ephemeral mirage of hope.

 

[BobTheCoward]

The only question worth pursuing is "Why did Flynn lie when he had no need to?"

You are not the arbiter of that.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

Fox's judicial analyst Andrew Napolitano has been on the channel in recent days not quite following the party line re the Cohen plea. I'll quote a couple here:

"This is the Southern District of New York, this is the oldest and most prestigious federal prosecutors office in the country. They would not make an allegation like that if they did not have corroborated evidence to support it. And they cannot make an allegation like that unless they're going to do something with it."

"The John Edwards case actually hurts the president because John Edwards' lawyers made a motion to dismiss the indictment saying it's not a crime, and the judge published an opinion saying why it's a crime. The fact of the matter is, any scheme to defraud the government by failing to report what must be reported is a crime."

 

[Steve]

Mine is not an opinion, it is a fact that 1. The order required the filing of all 302s relating to the Flynn interview. 2. The government did not produce the 302 of the Flynn interview.

Those are facts.

You may be right. If the judge that made the order is critical of the documents I will concede that you are correct. If the judge accepts the documents this would prove that Mueller and Co complex with the order. We will see.

 

[a_unique_person]

If TBD views it like popehat, then it was a bad thing that he pled to an unjust law.

There are a lot of people who a convicted of that law. All of a sudden people are concerned.


The point is that this was a plea deal. When you make a plea deal you get to plead guilty to a lesser crime than the one you were facing. They had something much bigger over him than lying to the FBI.

 

[P.J. Denyer]

So, Cohen is a sewer rat but TBD is still defending Flynn? Cohen got three years. Flynn is getting off with no jail time because he has ratted Trump out bigly. Really spilled the Covfefe.

I suspect it's because Trump sees Flynn as being a tough guy and Cohen as weaker than himself. Trump is a second class bully who uses money to give him the power to bully, his toughness comes from his ability to hire people to hide behind. Use the behaviour of the most insecure bully as a guide and Trump's not so hard to figure out.