• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Mueller Investigation pt4

Status
Not open for further replies.
Elements of a Section 1001 false statements case:

Title 18, United States Code, Section 1001 makes it a crime to: 1) knowingly and willfully; 2) make any materially false, fictitious or fraudulent statement or representation; 3) in any matter within the jurisdiction of the executive, legislative or judicial branch of the United States.

Flynn's allegedly "inconsistent" statements were not:

1. knowingly and willfully false
2. material, as explained by Popehat.

Flynn got played by several of the most dishonest agents the FBI has ever produced, Strzok and McCabe. Hopefully both of those people will end up behind bars.
 
The Big Dog said:
"the two people who interviewed [Flynn] didn't think he was lying, [which] was not [a] great beginning of a false statement case."

-McCabe.
Click to expand...

Wasn't McCabe fired by Trump because he "lacked candor — including under oath — on multiple occasions"?

You were barely able to type his name a few months ago without bringing up how you couldn't trust a word the man said because he was a proven liar, including under oath. Now you seem to want to take his word at face value. What's changed?
 
The Big Dog said:
Flynn's allegedly "inconsistent" statements were not:

1. knowingly and willfully false
Click to expand...

Yes they were. He's admitted as much. His defence lawyers have admitted as much.

2. material, as explained by Popehat.
Click to expand...

Actually, Popehat explains why it's material, according to Title 18, United States Code, Section 1001:

twitter.com/Popehat/status/1073609051911507968

/4 But here's the trick. The "materiality" element for 1001 has been watered down. It doesn't require that your lie ACTUALLY made any difference whatsoever. Just that it's the SORT of lie that hypothetically COULD in such a case.
Click to expand...

He argues that this is unjust but legal. You're arguing that it's not illegal.

Don't pretend that what he has said supports the argument you're trying to make.
 
The Big Dog said:
....
"Flynn was wrong to lie to the FBI. He should have lawyered up and/or told the truth. But what happened - the government convicting him because he told a lie they anticipated and never believed, that never hindered or delayed them -- is not right."

damn right it is not right, and not just for the reasons cited today by popehat.
Click to expand...

The government didn't "convict" Flynn. He accepted a plea bargain: He admitted guilt to two relatively minor charges with limited potential jail time, in exchange for the government not prosecuting much more serious charges with much tougher consequences. Manafort lawyered up and went to trial, and he will very likely die in prison. Considering what we know about Flynn cozying up to Putin, Flynn should be sending Mueller big Christmas baskets every year forever.
 
The Big Dog said:
"the two people who interviewed [Flynn] didn't think he was lying, [which] was not [a] great beginning of a false statement case."

-McCabe.
Click to expand...

I've highlighted the really important part.

Just because you don't think a person is lying, does not mean they are not lying. It could be that...

a. You are not very good at detecting when a person is lying to you

b. the person is very good at lying.
 
The Great Zaganza said:
Flynn is just lucky he wasn't Court-martialed.
Click to expand...


That's not hyperbole.
Retired military officers are subject to the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) under Article 2 of the UCMJ, which extends the jurisdiction of military law to “[r]etired members of a regular component of the armed forces who are entitled to pay.” (See the Army’s implementing regulation, AR 27-10, Military Justice, here: “Retirees are subject to the UCMJ and may be tried by court-martial for violations ... that occurred ... while in a retired status.”) Service-specific statutes and rules also define the regular components of the armed forces expansively to include retired officers.
Click to expand...
https://www.lawfareblog.com/law-retired-military-officers-and-political-endorsements-primer

I wonder if keeping his rank and pension and avoiding military charges might have been factors in his plea bargain.
 
Last edited:
The Big Dog said:
But there is a principled argument that what happened to Flynn is wrong.

"Flynn was wrong to lie to the FBI. He should have lawyered up and/or told the truth. But what happened - the government convicting him because he told a lie they anticipated and never believed, that never hindered or delayed them -- is not right."

damn right it is not right, and not just for the reasons cited today by popehat.
Click to expand...

My position is of course clear and consistent.

Please read the entire posts.
 
Sewer rat Michael Cohen is all dressed up in a nifty sweater as he goes on "ignore all my actual felonies, it was all Donald's fault" tour.

Trump made you and your wife lie on your taxes...
(cohen throws on another turtleneck...)
Yes.
 
The Big Dog said:
Sewer rat Michael Cohen is all dressed up in a nifty sweater as he goes on "ignore all my actual felonies, it was all Donald's fault" tour.

Trump made you and your wife lie on your taxes...
(cohen throws on another turtleneck...)
Yes.
Click to expand...
That is precisely NOT what he said. He is explicitly saying it was HIS OWN fault. He NEVER said that Trump made him lie.

Please be honest.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom