Satanic Sculpture at Illinois Statehouse.

[Thermal]

I think you've got nothing, but you still feel the need to reply, so you're backpedaling and feigning joking detachment to save face. Fine, whatever. I hope that it'll at least cause you to consider a new perspective, the next time you hear an attack on different beliefs couched as a matter of politeness.

Oh, please. I'm not backpedaling anywhere. I'm at exactly the same position I have been since the start of this inane discussion, flippant approach included.

The interesting part here is the approach you and others have taken. You misread my argument into one you are more comfortable arguing, then give canned responses. You put up a pretense of the OP being a case of minority religious beliefs fighting their way for equal treatment. Who could argue against that, right? How noble is their valiant crusade.

But that's not what happened. The Satanists requested permission to install their statuary, and it was granted without issue. Some twitterers tweeted the same stuff they always tweet. Big deal. So basically, no issue here. I opine that they are being dicks for the hell of it instead of doing something productive, and you launch the crusade again. And...this is the fun part...using precisely the same argumentative tactics that you criticize as bullying and intolerant. And you genuinely can't see that.

 

[Thermal]

No. The Satanic temple is not heckling people at their most vulnerable and most personal, funerals...and then litigating if they react negatively. There's nothing the Satanic temple does that comes marginally close to the WBC playbook.

The rationale is exactly the same: 'We have the right of religious expression to do this and you can't stop us'. That is exactly, precisely what the Satanic dudes are claiming.

The thing is, they are not a religious group. They put up a comic book pretense of being one in order to put themselves on an equal playing field with legitimate religions, and thus advance their philosophy. That's all great to shine light on the issue of the power and influence of churches, and the preferential treatments they unfairly receive as the majority. That's not what snakey handy thingy was about.

 

[TragicMonkey]

The rationale is exactly the same: 'We have the right of religious expression to do this and you can't stop us'. That is exactly, precisely what the Satanic dudes are claiming.

The thing is, they are not a religious group. They put up a comic book pretense of being one in order to put themselves on an equal playing field with legitimate religions, and thus advance their philosophy. That's all great to shine light on the issue of the power and influence of churches, and the preferential treatments they unfairly receive as the majority. That's not what snakey handy thingy was about.

You don't have the right to decide what is or isn't a valid religious belief, or judge the sincerity of the faithful to some standard of yours. Satanists have as much right to their religion -- regardless of how 'genuine' you feel it is -- as anybody else. Arguing otherwise is what leads to Albigensian Crusades, and persecution like the Yazidi still suffer today.

 

[JoeMorgue]

So now the "What goes on in their heart of hearts is all that matters" crowd is declaring themselves the arbitrary of sincerity.

I don't give a tin whistle fart if their display is a Jesus on a Cross with a clown noes and deely-bobbers. They have the exact same right; legal, logical, and moral, to put it up as anyone else.

 

[Thermal]

You don't have the right to decide what is or isn't a valid religious belief, or judge the sincerity of the faithful to some standard of yours. Satanists have as much right to their religion -- regardless of how 'genuine' you feel it is -- as anybody else. Arguing otherwise is what leads to Albigensian Crusades, and persecution like the Yazidi still suffer today.

Sure I do. I can look at a comic book parody who acknowledges that they are non theistic and opine that they are satirists. There's no need to play make-pretend about what they are doing. Its a clever send-up, and their point is perfectly valid. But they do not worship Satan, as their persona insists. They don't even believe in Satan, by their own acknowledgement.

 

[Thermal]

So now the "What goes on in their heart of hearts is all that matters" crowd is declaring themselves the arbitrary of sincerity.

I don't give a tin whistle fart if their display is a Jesus on a Cross with a clown noes and deely-bobbers. They have the exact same right; legal, logical, and moral, to put it up as anyone else.

As we all agree. You have a point in there somewhere or is this random posturing?

 

[JoeMorgue]

As we all agree. You have a point in there somewhere or is this random posturing?

Why is it every discussion with you ends with you arguing that we're all totally agree... but you're still arguing?

If we all agree what has the last 6 pages of you pissing on a minority religion for speaking up in a way they didn't run past you for approval been about?

Just learn to drop your end of the rope for God's sake.

 

[Thermal]

Why is it every discussion with you ends with you arguing that we're all totally agree... but you're still arguing?

If we all agree what has the last 6 pages of you pissing on a minority religion for speaking up in a way they didn't run past you for approval been about?

Just learn to drop your end of the rope for God's sake.

Seriously man, what is wrong with you?

From my very first post here, I have opined that these guys have every right go do what they are doing, but that they are just being dicks.

Then we are treated to six pages of posters challenging an argument I have not made, complete with Ophelia-esque posturing and lamenting the downtrodden religious minorities.

Perhaps if you got your individual and collective heads out of your asses, you might note I am not making the argument you have gleaned with those stellar reading comprehension skills

 

[JoeMorgue]

Seriously man, what is wrong with you?

You argued from a point of religious bigotry and when argued into a corner you dug in to save face. I'm not the first person to point this out. Nor is it the first time you've done it.

You're applying double standards to majority and minority religions and after it's been explained to you that's all you've been doing you're getting pissy because you don't want to lose so you're doing, again what you always do, trying to save face by muddying the waters and not actually making any clear arguments outside of "I don't want to be wrong."

 

[The Greater Fool]

From my very first post here, I have opined that these guys have every right go do what they are doing, but that they are just being dicks.

The Jews also don't celebrate cultural Christian traditions, are they being dicks for their non-participatory display? The Jews went through similar accusations of being dicks a couple decades ago.

Yes, from a Christian view, non-celebrants that are not silent are dicks. I don't take the cultural Christian view of this, you do.

I'm reminded there are two ends of a tug of war rope.

 

[Thermal]

You argued from a point of religious bigotry and when argued into a corner you dug in to save face. I'm not the first person to point this out. Nor is it the first time you've done it.

And you snip out or ignore the point of posts to argue your made-up interpretations.

You skim posts, lift keywords you are comfortable with, and respond with canned answers. That's not me, baby doll.

Look at the post you put up, where you don't give a fog whistle fart or whatever. You end by asserting that the Satanists have every right to display the sculpture. Do you really think you are saying something? Since page one I have said the same thing. You just can't read. Heal thyself.

You're applying double standards to majority and minority religions and after it's been explained to you that's all you've been doing you're getting pissy because you don't want to lose so you're doing, again what you always do, trying to save face by muddying the waters and not actually making any clear arguments outside of "I don't want to be wrong."

Wrong yet again. There is no right or wrong here. My opinion is that they are being douchebags for the hell of it. That they are a made up religion is a fact. Clever, because it puts them on equal footing, but still made up. It changes nothing though. They still have the right to display.

But you keep arguing with those voices in your head.

 

[Worm]

all religions are made up.

 

[JoeMorgue]

all religions are made up.

Yes but apparently some of them are more sincere then others because of... reasons.

 

[Joe Random]

If nothing else this thread has convinced me that acting the contrarian merely for the sake of being contrary is indeed dickish and unproductive.

 

[Thermal]

The Jews also don't celebrate cultural Christian traditions, are they being dicks for their non-participatory display? The Jews went through similar accusations of being dicks a couple decades ago.

Yes, from a Christian view, non-celebrants that are not silent are dicks. I don't take the cultural Christian view of this, you do.

I'm reminded there are two ends of a tug of war rope.

And sometimes there is a third end. Here, the third end is that the devil dudes have every legal right to do what they are doing. Their pretend religion device, smart as it is, gives them the Freedom of Religion pass. They can absolutely do this, but like FSM, I am not taking them seriously as an actual religion. I take Festivus seriously, though.

But why do you see my argument as taking the cultural christian view? It could be, but it doesn't need to be. You drop some pagans dancing around a Maypole, and I have the same argument against any Christian group who inserts themselves in just to be a twat. Please just think about that for a split second.

 

[TragicMonkey]

My opinion is that they are being douchebags for the hell of iit

Can you provide any examples of others performing this behavior? Oh, you did.

 

[Thermal]

If nothing else this thread has convinced me that acting the contrarian merely for the sake of being contrary is indeed dickish and unproductive.

Thermal, for six pages: yeah, these guys have every right in the world to do what they are doing.

Illiterates: no, no, no, they absolutely have the right to do this!

 

[Dave Rogers]

Thermal, for six pages: yeah, these guys have every right in the world to do what they are doing.

Did you forget the "But they're dicks" bit already?

Dave

 

[Thermal]

Yes but apparently some of them are more sincere then others because of... reasons.

Reasons: they literally sat down and lifted Christan symbols and names, coupled them with B movie devil worshipping images, and declared themselves a non theistic religion.

Are you freaking 5 years old to even put up a pretense of taking this seriously?

 

[JoeMorgue]

Did you forget the "But they're dicks" bit already?

Apparently we're only allowed to argue against parts of Thermal's argument he allows us to.