Satanic Sculpture at Illinois Statehouse.

[JimOfAllTrades]

I guess the problem is that I genuinely don't run across these hostile types, so it comes across as some abstract theoretical problem. Last week I got to wish one of my He-bros a Happy Chanukah. It was a good feeling to share that, even though its not what I celebrate (not even clear on what it is, something about remarkable fuel efficiency). I pretty much see everyone enjoying the season, stress excepted. Never got the impression that it was bring forced on anyone unwillingly, although I take your word for it that it does hapoen

Well, with any luck your experience will become more and more the standard experience for us all.

I do live in Utah, where the population is still (I think) over 50% a single Christian denomination. And even with that the majority of those that I know are quite pleasant people who are not jerks to people who believe differently. But the others do exist, and not just among the LDS. The "war on Christmas" silliness you hear about each year is a part of that same feeling of entitlement.

So I don't mind a little poke back at those folks who feel like they should get things their way just because they always have.

 

[Senex]

His dog told him to.

The Satanic artist was so dyslexic that when he went to meet Santa at Macy's he ended up in the YMCA.

 

[Minoosh]

I like to imagine the bemused response of the Chinese factory workers churning out all those plastic Baby Jesuses. I imagine quite a few are baffled at the crap Americans will buy.

I used to like assembling my small Nativity scene and didn't stop for any particular reason. The birth story has always been my favorite part of Christianity. I like "Silent Night" and "God Rest Ye Merry, Gentlemen."

The bummer part is that Herod supposedly hunted down and killed every boy age 2 or under in the region of Bethlehem. An angel warned Mary and Joseph to skedaddle and seek asylum in Egypt.

I don't know if they had a visa.

 

[This is The End]

If the Satanic based was in celebration and good will, sure. But it's not. It's a flip-off in spite, down to using the Christian symbolism.

Not that that even matters but the entire christian religion is a "flip-off in spite" of another religion.

 

[Beelzebuddy]

Well, with any luck your experience will become more and more the standard experience for us all.

I think Thermal's experience does resemble ours, just seen from a deeply entitled viewpoint. Consider that her main objection here is not that the Satanic Temple display shouldn't exist, but that she shouldn't have to notice it. It should be more demure. Inoffensive. Maybe off in a corner someplace, or behind the tree. In a different room altogether. On a different day. In a different building's basement. Or they ought to accept that Christians should have veto power on religious displays set up next to their own. Because right now their display just isn't nice.

Which is an old argument.

 

[Thermal]

I think Thermal's experience does resemble ours, just seen from a deeply entitled viewpoint. Consider that her main objection here is not that the Satanic Temple display shouldn't exist, but that she shouldn't have to notice it. It should be more demure. Inoffensive. Maybe off in a corner someplace, or behind the tree. In a different room altogether. On a different day. In a different building's basement. Or they ought to accept that Christians should have veto power on religious displays set up next to their own. Because right now their display just isn't nice.

Which is an old argument.

Can't view the video, my phone wants me to register something.

You got sooooo close, but dropped the ball. Thermal's argument has not been that the sculpture should be more discrete. Thermal's argument has been that it is not a display that is part of a celebration, as the others are. Thermal likes a party, and the sculpture, beautiful as it is in it's way, is not part of any festivity; it is a turd plopped in the punch bowl. If the Devil dudes even put up some weak pretense of a Solstice observance, different story then.

BTW, regarding 'deeply entitled': you assert at least twice that I am a 'she'. Thermal is a 'he', right down to the Y chromosomes. What sense of obnoxious entitlement are you under to assert my gender, in contradiction to my identification? Satanist apologetics be rude, yo.

 

[Thermal]

I like to imagine the bemused response of the Chinese factory workers churning out all those plastic Baby Jesuses. I imagine quite a few are baffled at the crap Americans will buy.

I used to like assembling my small Nativity scene and didn't stop for any particular reason. The birth story has always been my favorite part of Christianity. I like "Silent Night" and "God Rest Ye Merry, Gentlemen."

The bummer part is that Herod supposedly hunted down and killed every boy age 2 or under in the region of Bethlehem. An angel warned Mary and Joseph to skedaddle and seek asylum in Egypt.

I don't know if they had a visa.

My great grandmother made ceramics, partially for a living. I have a tabletop nativity she made handed down to me. Usually the figures were painted, but these she made pure white with melted gold accents. Very sleek, almost stylized. She did not wear gold, except for her wedding band, so that showed a very special use.

When I see the 16 figures in this set (including animals and shepards), I don't think about religion. I think about her, and the work she did to make something beautiful. A lot of Christmas stuff is like that, I think. Memories of family and love. That's why snakey handy thingy is out of place. Joining in a good time is great. Spitting on it for a pet cause is petty.

 

[applecorped]

In this case time not well spent

 

[TragicMonkey]

My great grandmother made ceramics, partially for a living. I have a tabletop nativity she made handed down to me. Usually the figures were painted, but these she made pure white with melted gold accents. Very sleek, almost stylized. She did not wear gold, except for her wedding band, so that showed a very special use.

When I see the 16 figures in this set (including animals and shepards), I don't think about religion. I think about her, and the work she did to make something beautiful. A lot of Christmas stuff is like that, I think. Memories of family and love. That's why snakey handy thingy is out of place. Joining in a good time is great. Spitting on it for a pet cause is petty.

Understood: your feelings are more important than other people's.

 

[xterra]

Off topic

Beelzebuddy's use of "she" is based on the well-known principle of identification by avatar.

Someone using this method would conclude that I am a ruined railroad bridge that once spanned the Kinzua Creek valley. To the best of my knowledge, I am not.

End off-topic comment.

 

[TragicMonkey]

Someone using this method would conclude that I am a ruined railroad bridge that once spanned the Kinzua Creek valley. To the best of my knowledge, I am not.

Evidence?

 

[The Greater Fool]

My great grandmother made ceramics, partially for a living. I have a tabletop nativity she made handed down to me. Usually the figures were painted, but these she made pure white with melted gold accents. Very sleek, almost stylized. She did not wear gold, except for her wedding band, so that showed a very special use.

Your mom was a Pastor's wife. It obviously was religious to her, because as you said, she made it in a very special way. I can't believe you discount her religious feeling about this valued heirloom to a party favor.

Or, is it only the heirloom that has religious meaning, and not the similar products that non-artists can acquire?

The Nativity is religious. The Menorah is religious. Get real.

 

[Thermal]

Understood: your feelings are more important than other people's.

What does that mean? I'm not advocating for Nativity displays. I am advocating against party poopers.

Just like with a Menorah, or one of those Kwanzaa Menorahs, or a Festivus Pole, or a Solstice Sacrifice. Hell, join in, however you like. I'll tilt one back for Baphomet's health. But seriously, with all the ******* misery out there, why go out of your way to be a dick?

 

[Thermal]

Your mom was a Pastor's wife. It obviously was religious to her, because as you said, she made it in a very special way. I can't believe you discount her religious feeling about this valued heirloom to a party favor.

Or, is it only the heirloom that has religious meaning, and not the similar products that non-artists can acquire?

The Nativity is religious. The Menorah is religious. Get real.

Correction: my mom was an abandoning drug addict's wife. Grandpop was the preacher.

Yes, nativities and menorahs are religious, of course. What I am saying is that (especially the nativity) have become more party decorations which can be lightly seen independently of their origins

Ideally, I'd like to see Nativities removed from public displays. But I think that would necessitate removing Menorahs too, no?

On balance, I think it is a net win to allow everyone to decorate for the holidays, even if they have religious elements. Would it be better to keep Santa and the trees and lose the Menorahs? That seems far more exclusive to me. Serious question

Eta: BTW, my great grandmom was not particularly religious, that I recall

 

[Thermal]

Off topic

Beelzebuddy's use of "she" is based on the well-known principle of identification by avatar.

Someone using this method would conclude that I am a ruined railroad bridge that once spanned the Kinzua Creek valley. To the best of my knowledge, I am not.

End off-topic comment.

Further supporting my point that irrelevant superficial assessments should not be conflated to the argument made

 

[autumn1971]

No, my argument is that when a lot of people are having a good time, welcoming their religion, the secular, and other religions, don't shove your way in and tell them all to suck it.

Different argument, that. Its not the politico- religious perspective. Its just manners

They are very obviously not welcoming others. The Jews had to fight to get menorahs allowed, and they’re just a teeny bit mistaken about the messiah.

In many parts of theUS these displays are not festive, they are very conscious decisions to let everyone know “we run this town, if you believe something different then bless your heart.”

(For non-Southerners, “bless your heart” means “ **** you, we’ll be at your house with burning crosses soon.”)

 

[Thermal]

They are very obviously not welcoming others. The Jews had to fight to get menorahs allowed, and they’re just a teeny bit mistaken about the messiah.

In many parts of theUS these displays are not festive, they are very conscious decisions to let everyone know “we run this town, if you believe something different then bless your heart.”

(For non-Southerners, “bless your heart” means “{happy happy}you, we’ll be at your house with burning crosses soon.”)

I really like that last part. Even the auto sensor is (for now) down with the sentiment.

Maybe this is more of a regional thing. Here in God's own NJ, people are pretty chill about it, and no threats are bantered about. No one cares about religion that much, certainly not in some societally-wide way

 

[xterra]

Off topic

Beelzebuddy's use of "she" is based on the well-known principle of identification by avatar.

Someone using this method would conclude that I am a ruined railroad bridge that once spanned the Kinzua Creek valley. To the best of my knowledge, I am not.

End off-topic comment.

Evidence?

You think I'm gonna provide evidence to a snaggle-toothed non-gendered skull with enlarged ocular orbits, and some kinda dancing monkey thing advertising poisoned waffles?

You gotta be kidding.

 

[autumn1971]

I really like that last part. Even the auto sensor is (for now) down with the sentiment.

Maybe this is more of a regional thing. Here in God's own NJ, people are pretty chill about it, and no threats are bantered about. No one cares about religion that much, certainly not in some societally-wide way

I think I fixed the cussin’.
That done, I also think that a town in Iowa has more in common with my town than New Jersey, (lived there til I was seven, many happy memories!)

Religion is used aggressively. It is, in some swaths of the country, never a benign, festive thing. It is marking territory exactly as planting a flag might be: “This land is ours.”

 

[Thermal]

I think I fixed the cussin’.
That done, I also think that a town in Iowa has more in common with my town than New Jersey, (lived there til I was seven, many happy memories!)

Religion is used aggressively. It is, in some swaths of the country, never a benign, festive thing. It is marking territory exactly as planting a flag might be: “This land is ours.”

(I went back and fixed your quote in my post to keep us all free of Satanic mod editing)

I wonder how hostile the people are in Illinois, where the OP is set?