Mueller Investigation pt4

[acbytesla]

It'll be interesting to see what actual evidence is presented (assuming that information will be shared with the Public) to support your allegation of intentional disdain for the law. I wonder what type of experience Cohen has with Campaign finance law?

Im curious why you cannot acknowledge how Cohen's testimony could be conflicted. The special counsels' use of coercion is especially problematic for me. I know you despised Trump from the onset and thus rationalize it much differently than me.

Coercion? Tell the truth or go to jail? You mean that kind of coercion? Yeah, its a real bitch when they enforce the law.

 

[acbytesla]

Not a fine, as such. Manafort had something like $40 million in seized assets.

I think it even included a Trump Tower apartment. NYC not Moscow.

 

[BobTheCoward]

It'll be interesting to see what actual evidence is presented (assuming that information will be shared with the Public) to support your allegation of intentional disdain for the law. I wonder what type of experience Cohen has with Campaign finance law?

Im curious why you cannot acknowledge how Cohen's testimony could be conflicted. The special counsels' use of coercion is especially problematic for me. I know you despised Trump from the onset and thus rationalize it much differently than me.

I generally crap on the FBI and DoJ every chance I get. They are not scientists or experts in fact finding.

The one thing I will concede to them is expertise in using plea bargain to get permissable testimony in court. So the reason I don't worry about the conflict is because managing it is their skill set.

 

[smartcooky]

Yeah, I was just about to post that piece. In short, Popehat doesn't say much that everybody else isn't saying, but the TL/DR version is "Trump is in serious trouble, and Mueller clearly has a very strong case".

You notice how TBD isn't quoting Popehat much these days?

 

[smartcooky]

The crime of improper use of campaign funds occurs quite frequently in American politics. The standard response upon finding campaigns whom violated those statutes is a monetary fine.

Maybe so, but the fact that he and Cohen channelled the money he used to make the illegal payment through Trump's business, and then created false allocation labels for that payment in an attempt to hide what it was, where it came from and where it went, is not just a campaign violation; what they did is money laundering, 18 US Code § 1956, violation of this statute can resut in prison time.

18 U.S. Code § 1956 - Laundering of monetary instruments
(a)
(1) Whoever, knowing that the property involved in a financial transaction represents the proceeds of some form of unlawful activity, conducts or attempts to conduct such a financial transaction which in fact involves the proceeds of specified unlawful activity—
(A)
(i) with the intent to promote the carrying on of specified unlawful activity; or
(ii) with intent to engage in conduct constituting a violation of section 7201 or 7206 of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986; or
(B) knowing that the transaction is designed in whole or in part— (i) to conceal or disguise the nature, the location, the source, the ownership, or the control of the proceeds of specified unlawful activity; or(ii) to avoid a transaction reporting requirement under State or Federal law,
shall be sentenced to a fine of not more than $500,000 or twice the value of the property involved in the transaction, whichever is greater, or imprisonment for not more than twenty years, or both. For purposes of this paragraph, a financial transaction shall be considered to be one involving the proceeds of specified unlawful activity if it is part of a set of parallel or dependent transactions, any one of which involves the proceeds of specified unlawful activity, and all of which are part of a single plan or arrangement.​

Additionally, the fact that they did this together with the intent to subvert campaign laws could also put them both in violation of RICO statutes.

In any case, the impeachment of a US President does not require that the high crimes and misdemeanours he commits are attractive of punishments involving prison time, they only need to be crimes, and what Cohen and Trump have done here is commit crimes. If Trump was not POTUS right now, he would already have been indicted right alongside Cohen.

 

[varwoche]

It'll be interesting to see what actual evidence is presented (assuming that information will be shared with the Public) to support your allegation of intentional disdain for the law. I wonder what type of experience Cohen has with Campaign finance law?

It's not my allegation, although I'm glad to allege it.

At least we can safely say -- your generic call-out as to how campaign finance violations are handled is not applicable here.

 

[acbytesla]

Maybe so, but the fact that he and Cohen channelled the money he used to make the illegal payment through Trump's business, and then created false allocation labels for that payment in an attempt to hide what it was, where it came from and where it went, is not just a campaign violation; what they did is money laundering, 18 US Code § 1956, violation of this statute can resut in prison time.

18 U.S. Code § 1956 - Laundering of monetary instruments
(a)
(1) Whoever, knowing that the property involved in a financial transaction represents the proceeds of some form of unlawful activity, conducts or attempts to conduct such a financial transaction which in fact involves the proceeds of specified unlawful activity—
(A)
(i) with the intent to promote the carrying on of specified unlawful activity; or
(ii) with intent to engage in conduct constituting a violation of section 7201 or 7206 of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986; or
(B) knowing that the transaction is designed in whole or in part— (i) to conceal or disguise the nature, the location, the source, the ownership, or the control of the proceeds of specified unlawful activity; or(ii) to avoid a transaction reporting requirement under State or Federal law,
shall be sentenced to a fine of not more than $500,000 or twice the value of the property involved in the transaction, whichever is greater, or imprisonment for not more than twenty years, or both. For purposes of this paragraph, a financial transaction shall be considered to be one involving the proceeds of specified unlawful activity if it is part of a set of parallel or dependent transactions, any one of which involves the proceeds of specified unlawful activity, and all of which are part of a single plan or arrangement.​

Additionally, the fact that they did this together with the intent to subvert campaign laws could also put them both in violation of RICO statutes.

In any case, the impeachment of a US President does not require that the high crimes and misdemeanours he commits are attractive of punishments involving prison time, they only need to be crimes, and what Cohen and Trump have done here is commit crimes. If Trump was not POTUS right now, he would already have been indicted right alongside Cohen.

I lived through Watergate. It proved what a sleazy bastard Nixon was. But what we've learned about Trump and his administration makes Nixon pale in comparison. Trump didn't just sell out. He sold out to an authoritarian dictatorship and a major adversary of the United States. He did this for personal greed.

I am hopeful that enough comes out that even Republicans decide Trump should be impeached.

 

[Stacyhs]

You are forgetting the SDNY prosecutors also allege:



That is a felony for both Trump and Cohen.

The crime of improper use of campaign funds occurs quite frequently in American politics. The standard response upon finding campaigns whom violated those statutes is a monetary fine.

What Cohen and Trump did is a felony:

Speaking under oath in court Tuesday, Michael Cohen admitted arranging payments to keep a former Playboy model and a porn star quiet during the 2016 election about alleged affairs “in coordination with and at the direction of a candidate for federal office” — Trump. He told the judge that he knew what he was doing was illegal but that he did it anyway.
All of these admissions, as the Judge presiding over the case, William H. Pauley III, said in court Tuesday, rendered Cohen’s actions a felony: he knew he was breaking the law — specifically the Federal Election Act, which regulates money in politics — and he did it anyway. If he had no knowledge he was doing anything illegal, but merely donated more money than the federally allotted limit, he potentially could have faced a less severe repercussion, such as a monetary fine from the Federal Election Commission.

“The difference between a campaign finance violation that is a crime and a campaign finance violation is a civil matter is whether the action was taking knowingly and willfully,” explained Paul S. Ryan, the Vice President of Policy & Litigation at Common Cause, the non-partisan organization that filed complaints with the Department of Justice and the Federal Election Commission earlier this year regarding these payments.

http://time.com/5374619/donald-trump-campaign-finance-law-crimes/

 

[Stacyhs]

I lived through Watergate. It proved what a sleazy bastard Nixon was. But what we've learned about Trump and his administration makes Nixon pale in comparison. Trump didn't just sell out. He sold out to an authoritarian dictatorship and a major adversary of the United States. He did this for personal greed.

I am hopeful that enough comes out that even Republicans decide Trump should be impeached.

You have more hope than I do on this. As we've seen, some Republicans have not only drunk the Trump flavored Kool Aid, they've been embalmed with it.

I can see the House bringing impeachment charges, but I cannot see the Senate convicting with the required 2/3rds majority. At least not this Senate.

 

[Beelzebuddy]

I think it even included a Trump Tower apartment. NYC not Moscow.

Think Mueller can find someone to piss on the bed?

 

[Stacyhs]

Think Mueller can find someone to piss on the bed?

If it's Trump's bed, I volunteer.

 

[acbytesla]

You have more hope than I do on this. As we've seen, some Republicans have not only drunk the Trump flavored Kool Aid, they've been embalmed with it.

I can see the House bringing impeachment charges, but I cannot see the Senate convicting with the required 2/3rds majority. At least not this Senate.

I didn't say how much hope I have. But it wouldn't surprise me. This is not over. Not by a long shot. I think Mueller is just getting warmed up. And lets not forget. In a few weeks, Democrats take over the House.

 

[Stacyhs]

I didn't say how much hope I have. But it wouldn't surprise me. This is not over. Not by a long shot. I think Mueller is just getting warmed up. And lets not forget. In a few weeks, Democrats take over the House.

Yes, they do thankfully. But it's the Senate that tries the case and I have very little faith in the GOP controlled Senate.

 

[jimbob]

You are forgetting the SDNY prosecutors also allege:



That is a felony for both Trump and Cohen.

The crime of improper use of campaign funds occurs quite frequently in American politics. The standard response upon finding campaigns whom violated those statutes is a monetary fine.

What Cohen and Trump did is a felony:

Speaking under oath in court Tuesday, Michael Cohen admitted arranging payments to keep a former Playboy model and a porn star quiet during the 2016 election about alleged affairs “in coordination with and at the direction of a candidate for federal office” — Trump. He told the judge that he knew what he was doing was illegal but that he did it anyway.
All of these admissions, as the Judge presiding over the case, William H. Pauley III, said in court Tuesday, rendered Cohen’s actions a felony: he knew he was breaking the law — specifically the Federal Election Act, which regulates money in politics — and he did it anyway. If he had no knowledge he was doing anything illegal, but merely donated more money than the federally allotted limit, he potentially could have faced a less severe repercussion, such as a monetary fine from the Federal Election Commission.

“The difference between a campaign finance violation that is a crime and a campaign finance violation is a civil matter is whether the action was taking knowingly and willfully,” explained Paul S. Ryan, the Vice President of Policy & Litigation at Common Cause, the non-partisan organization that filed complaints with the Department of Justice and the Federal Election Commission earlier this year regarding these payments.

http://time.com/5374619/donald-trump-campaign-finance-law-crimes/

Also

The defendant’s false statements obscured the fact that the Moscow Project was a lucrative
business opportunity that sought, and likely required, the assistance of the Russian government. If
the project was completed, the Company could have received hundreds of millions of dollars from
Russian sources in licensing fees and other revenues. The fact that Cohen continued to work on
the project and discuss it with Individual 1 well into the campaign was material to the ongoing
congressional and SCO investigations, particularly because it occurred at a time of sustained
efforts by the Russian government to interfere with the U.S. presidential election. Similarly, it was
material that Cohen, during the campaign, had a substantive telephone call about the project with
an assistant to the press secretary for the President of Russia.

 

[carlitos]

Thanks for the replies on Manafort’s asset forfeiture. I never saw the ostrich coat on eBay.

 

[acbytesla]

Yes, they do thankfully. But it's the Senate that tries the case and I have very little faith in the GOP controlled Senate.

Yes, but the House has an ability to investigate. Much more is coming.

 

[smartcooky]

I didn't say how much hope I have. But it wouldn't surprise me. This is not over. Not by a long shot. I think Mueller is just getting warmed up. And lets not forget. In a few weeks, Democrats take over the House.

<snip> ....the House has an ability to investigate. Much more is coming.

Agreed

I think there are an increasing number of Republican Senators who are beginning to distance themselves from Trump. At this time, there may not be enough to swing the 2/3 majority needed to impeach, but after the Democrats take control of the house, and with more investigations on the way, subpoena's galore for people in Trump's orbit being brought up in front of the House to testify, this could change.

We know that many Republican politicians are all about getting into power and staying there, no matter what they have to do to achieve that. This is why they commit blatant voter suppression to limit voting opportunities for likely democratic voters. This is why they gerrymander boundaries to maximise the number of seats in the House.

As we get closer to 2020, if it looks like Trump really is a sinking ship, the Republican rats will leave it. They are motivated not by what is fair, not by what is best for their country, not by what the American people want... they are motivated only by their own self-interest - if they see themselves losing power as a consequence of Trump going down, they will not want to go down with him. If they see that another Republican politician will have a much better chance of being elected President, they will act in their own best interest and vote to impeach.

 

[acbytesla]

Agreed

I think there are an increasing number of Republican Senators who are beginning to distance themselves from Trump. At this time, there may not be enough to swing the 2/3 majority needed to impeach, but after the Democrats take control of the house, and with more investigations on the way, subpoena's galore for people in Trump's orbit being brought up in front of the House to testify, this could change.

We know that many Republican politicians are all about getting into power and staying there, no matter what they have to do to achieve that. This is why they commit blatant voter suppression to limit voting opportunities for likely democratic voters. This is why they gerrymander boundaries to maximise the number of seats in the House.

As we get closer to 2020, if it looks like Trump really is a sinking ship, the Republican rats will leave it. They are motivated not by what is fair, not by what is best for their country, not by what the American people want... they are motivated only by their own self-interest - if they see themselves losing power as a consequence of Trump going down, they will not want to go down with him. If they see that another Republican politician will have a much better chance of being elected President, they will act in their own best interest and vote to impeach..

This is also my guess. They saw what happened in the House. There may come a moment where the GOP may push harder for Trump's impeachment than the Democrats. But they need to do it in the next 6 months at the latest. As the next election gets closer the more the Dems will tar every Republican as corrupt rubber stamps.

 

[smartcooky]

It will never not blow me away that leftists are so cynical that they use Benghazi as punch line to defend Hillary

Might have something to do with the whole cover up that makes the things Mueller has found thus far look like literally less than nothing, particularly given how the whole thing has been a total nothingburger thus far.

Comey not answering about:

“Let’s just say in broad strokes that everything related to Hillary’s investigation, everything related to how they got onto it and what their process was, everything related to the FISA warrants and the fake dossier,” Issa said. “Those are the areas in which time and time again he is not answering.”

House should hold him in contempt and have the House Sergeant slap his ass in the hoosegow.

I laughed.

Four Americans including a US Ambassador getting killed and “one of the gravest modern offenses to government transparency.” ? No biggie.

Conspiracy theories about money laundering for the Russian Mob? Oh yeah, baby, that is the stuff!

So we know that Strzok and the crew monkeyed with 302s sent to Congress.

https://twitter.com/PoliticalShort/status/978038232280481792

And even more curiously, on the very day that Flynn resigned, we see this exchange between the star crossed lovers:

Strzok is asking his gal pal to ask Andy McCabe if he approves Strzok's 302 (why, was Andy in the ******* meeting?) and Lisa page tells her sleazy **** buddy that Andy says it is a launch:

Page 5-6

What a pack of scumbos....

Well, there is more evidence than a single claim, including the several statements regarding the fact that the original people who interviewed did not think he was lying, the fact that the FBI under these two mutts has admitted to modifying other 302s, etc.

There is no chance that the partisans reviewing those facts will properly consider them, of course.

Your whataboutism grows tiresome

This is a thread about Special Counsel Robert Mueller's investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 Presidential Election. It is not about your obsession with Hilary Clinton; it is not about your political fantasies and it is not about your political conspiracy theories. The thread for discussion of your obsessions and fantasies is thataway ========>

Pro Tip: if you cannot find it, make one. I'm sure your fan will follow you there.

 

[The Big Dog]

Checks in... poster has no clue what whataboutism means...

Hoo boy....