Cont: Brexit: Now What? Part 5

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ceptimus said:
The remainers like to drone on about leave not having a plan. They're wrong, of course, but putting that to one side, what is the remainer plan for the situation where they get their wish for a referendum re-run but lose it again? Brexit should have taught them not to ask a question without being prepared for both possible answers.
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Why should the Remainers have to come up with a plan on how to leave the EU? I know that the Leavers aren't competent to come up with one by themselves but that doesn't mean that it is someone else's job to come up with one for them.
 
The remainers don't need a leave plan - just a plan of how they will accept losing again, if that happens. It's their refusal to accept that they already lost that's got us in the current mess. I hope they won't make the same mistake if they get the re-referendum they're scheming for.
 
ceptimus said:
It's their refusal to accept that they already lost that's got us in the current mess.
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The sad thing is that I think you might actually believe that.

The mess has been caused by the simple inability of anyone on Team Leave to present a coherent plan to leave. Your plan was to simply flounce away from negotiations and fall off a cliff next year plunging the UK into chaos.

Can you give a single example of an issue that could have been resolved had it not been blocked by remainers refusing to accept that they lost?
 
ceptimus said:
The remainers don't need a leave plan - just a plan of how they will accept losing again, if that happens. It's their refusal to accept that they already lost that's got us in the current mess. I hope they won't make the same mistake if they get the re-referendum they're scheming for.
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You're in the current mess because you have no solution to the Irish border conundrum. The EU has offered you a backstop to move negotiations forward in case no other solution can be found.

The reaction of your Brexit leaders should show you the truth, if they believed Brexit could create frictionless trade they would have signed up to it by now secure in the knowledge that it would never be needed.
 
If the EU or Ireland have a veto on the UK ever being allowed to leave, don't you think they will use it?
 
ceptimus said:
If the EU or Ireland have a veto on the UK ever being allowed to leave, don't you think they will use it?
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Is that the latest spin, that the Irish backstop is a veto over the UK leaving?

Its ballix, wise up. The Irish backstop merely ensures that in the absence of any other way to keep the Irish border as is, both sides agree to keep NI aligned to SM rules and move the veterinary, phytosanitary etc checks to ports and airports in Britain.

If May and her cronies really thought they could create frictionless trade with the EU they would have signed it by now because they would be confident it would never be needed.
 
ceptimus said:
The remainers don't need a leave plan - just a plan of how they will accept losing again, if that happens. It's their refusal to accept that they already lost that's got us in the current mess. I hope they won't make the same mistake if they get the re-referendum they're scheming for.
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What a load of blithering nonsense.
What exactly is it that remainers have done to cause the pro-Brexit ministers in government to cause such a hash of things?

Last I checked this whole thing has been in the control of pro-Brexit people...for two years!

The current mess is entirely down to the fact that the Brexit they want is completely incompatible with reality.
 
Tolls said:
What a load of blithering nonsense.
What exactly is it that remainers have done to cause the pro-Brexit ministers in government to cause such a hash of things.
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Given support and succour to the EU side, so allowing them to negotiate with greater intransigence in their efforts to deny Brexit.
 
ceptimus said:
Given support and succour to the EU side, so allowing them to negotiate with greater intransigence in their efforts to deny Brexit.
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Ah! We remainers have improved the EU's morale? Given them the mental strength to fight with all their might? That explains it.
 
ceptimus said:
Given support and succour to the EU side, so allowing them to negotiate with greater intransigence in their efforts to deny Brexit.
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The problem is not the EU's intransigence, its the British inability to face up to reality.
 
Tolls said:
"Support and succour"?
Pitiful.
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"Efforts to deny Brexit" is even more pitiful. The EU are trying to negotiate an orderly withdrawal agreement, only in the childish view of Brexiters does that qualify as denying Brexit.
 
ceptimus said:
What would you call it? There's no doubt they support the EU side rather than their own country in the negotiations.
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That makes absolutely no difference to the EU. You need to stop blaming everyone else from the consequences of your mistake in being taken in by a bunch of liars who promised you rainbows and unicorns.
 
ceptimus said:
What would you call it? There's no doubt they support the EU side rather than their own country in the negotiations.
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I think you are misrepresenting people who are pointing out what a hash the government are making of negotiations.

Indeed, how little the relevant ministers are of how everything works.
Let's take Raab:
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/ukne...rade-to-uk-economy/ar-BBPtQJ5?ocid=spartandhp

Choice quote:
"I hadn’t quite understood the full extent of this, but if you look at the UK and look at how we trade in goods, we are particularly reliant on the Dover-Calais crossing."

No ****, Sherlock.

And that is just now.
This crap has been going on since the vote.

"Oh, that's a lot more complex than we thought."

So, no. Pointing out that the whole thing is a massive mistake, and that the people handling it don't have a scooby, is not "support and succour", which has obvious connotations.
 
I'll only blame them if and when they fail to deliver the Brexit they promised. I don't blame the EU - they can and should do what they think is best for the EU. I will blame the UK government if they fail to do what they promised - that is deliver a Brexit that disentangles us completely from EU rule.
 
ceptimus said:
I'll only blame them if and when they fail to deliver the Brexit they promised. I don't blame the EU - they can and should do what they think is best for the EU. I will blame the UK government if they fail to do what they promised - that is deliver a Brexit that disentangles us completely from EU rule.
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Which they can't do without losing the manufacturing industry, damaging the services sector, undermining the GFA and NI peace process and severly damaging Britain's international standing and economy.

No British government is going to do all that, so prepare to be disappointed.
 
ceptimus said:
What would you call it? There's no doubt they support the EU side rather than their own country in the negotiations.
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Same with those North Koreans who talk their country down by suggesting it might not be a good idea to threaten the USA with nukes.

In negotiations of any kind it's a good idea to understand the other side's position. The EU's has been from the start that you won't get a better deal from the EU than it's own members do. Anyone claiming it's possible is obviously deluded or lying. Hell even the USA couldn't get the EU to bend over and grease up for its desired trade deal.
 
The good deal is that we'll be free of EU rule. No one expects better economic trading with the EU. A price worth paying to be out of the corrupt EU, and the economic hit will be compensated by better trading with countries outside the EU.
 
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