Democrats = Antifa = BS

JoeMorgue said:
But "we" don't.

Again I'll believe this "Blue Wave" of impassioned Democratic voters stepping away from getting fed a constant drip of outrage from Facebook algorithm and sharing memes about how we're the gonna be the new Nazi Germany if we don't do something.... and actually voting when I see it.

Acting outraged and acting like you are outraged are two different things. Right now sadly the people on the correct side of history are just so much better at the former than the latter.
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I certainly hope you're wrong.
 
uke2se said:
I certainly hope you're wrong.
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And I do as well. More than you know

But literally everything about history says I'm not.

That's the problem with the Left right now, and always has been to a degree. They keep saying they think they world is coming to an end but keep acting like fanboys mad that a new film messed up their favorite franchises' cannon. They are more mad at the narrative than the reality.

I'm not saying (g)you shouldn't be pissed off. I'm saying you shouldn't be this kind of pissed off.
 
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The opposition, being without political power, is entitled to be less civil than the actual people running the government.
Republicans are Snowflakes when they can't deal with vocal criticism.
 
uke2se said:
Sure. If it helps them win. The system is already broken. In order to fix it you need to get it out of the hands of the ones who broke it by whatever means necessary.
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You won't fix matters by entrenching the bad behavior.
 
phiwum said:
You won't fix matters by entrenching the bad behavior.
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It's already entrenched. We also can't appeal to Republicans' better nature, nor shame them into changing. It's been tried, and it turns out they have no better nature and no sense of shame.
 
It's odd to see someone ranting about low voter turnout at a point when we don't know the turnout for today.

But aside from that, no, Democrat voter turnout is not a measure of how bad people really think Republicans are. It's a measure of a combination of that and how different the Democrats really appear. And the Democrats have spent years functionally being Republicans anyway.
 
uke2se said:
There's no reason we can't do both. It's not an either/or situation.

ETA: I also don't agree that protesting McConnell at a restaurant accomplishes nothing. I don't think it accomplishes much, but it's not meaningless.
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There is a decent argument and decent evidence that doing the former makes doing the latter harder. It motivates the other side to vote too.

There's also decent evidence that the appearance of chaos and lawlessness in society makes people vote more conservatively and makes conservatives more motivated to vote.
 
ahhell said:
There is a decent argument and decent evidence that doing the former makes doing the latter harder. It motivates the other side to vote too.

There's also decent evidence that the appearance of chaos and lawlessness in society makes people vote more conservatively and makes conservatives more motivated to vote.
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I don't think protesting someone, even as they are having dinner at a restaurant, constitute lawlessness or chaos in any way shape or form. In fact, I think it demonstrates that people are paying attention and that they are willing to utilize the system (in this case, their first amendment rights).
 
uke2se said:
I don't think protesting someone, even as they are having dinner at a restaurant, constitute lawlessness or chaos in any way shape or form. In fact, I think it demonstrates that people are paying attention and that they are willing to utilize the system (in this case, their first amendment rights).
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Sure, and marching in Washington with the North Vietnamese flag to protest the war isn't lawlessness, but sure as hell doesn't help the cause of peace. The Right is very good at demonizing causes that a majority of Americans may be inclined to support. Don't play into their hands.
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
Sure, and marching in Washington with the North Vietnamese flag to protest the war isn't lawlessness, but sure as hell doesn't help the cause of peace. The Right is very good at demonizing causes that a majority of Americans may be inclined to support. Don't play into their hands.
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And they are going to do that regardless of what you actually do. It's what they do. And the people who are open to listening to them will listen to them no matter what you do. It's what they do.

If you are offended enough by a North Vietnamese flag during a peace protest, or someone berating Mitch McConnell at a restaurant to stop fighting for Democratic causes (hell, let's just say 'democracy'), then you were never going to in the first place.
 
uke2se said:
And they are going to do that regardless of what you actually do. It's what they do. And the people who are open to listening to them will listen to them no matter what you do. It's what they do.

If you are offended enough by a North Vietnamese flag during a peace protest, or someone berating Mitch McConnell at a restaurant to stop fighting for Democratic causes (hell, let's just say 'democracy'), then you were never going to in the first place.
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Great. Yet again that's a good reason why it's not going to be your fault when you lose.

The Democrats have enough of those. They have a wall to floor bookcase full of reasons why them losing isn't their fault and I agree with most all of them.

Your moral high ground is sufficiently high. Put some artillery on it and start winning.

Again from David Wong (probably should have just posted the entire articel at this point)

Being a progressive is kind of like being a nerd in high school -- your identity is built around being a powerless outcast, and thus gaining power or popularity feels like a betrayal. Believing in an inherently unfair system is great if it motivates you to help make it more fair, but every so often, it just means we have a ready-made excuse for when we fail to achieve that goal.

If Trump's party holds onto one or both houses of Congress on Tuesday, it will be due to a whole bunch of narrow races going their way. If so, there will be many articles on left-wing blogs about how voter suppression won the GOP the election because of new voter ID laws and registration purges turning away thousands of votes. This will completely ignore the fact that 70-plus percent of us who weren't suppressed just chose to stay home, and the fact that a strong enough turnout would have crushed those suppression efforts like a horse stepping on a single human testicle.

We'll talk about gerrymandering, corporate campaign donations, the undemocratic Senate in which a vote in Wyoming carries as much power as 80 votes in California. Never mind bitter political battles that have been won by "victims" over the decades, who each faced unfair/rigged systems and (censored) won anyway. We can't acknowledge that we can in fact overcome the unfairness if we push hard enough, because that means if we fail to do it, that it's our fault. And nothing can ever be our fault, because victim-blaming is wrong and also we're always the victims.
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uke2se said:
I'm not going to defend the guy who shot the GOP congressman. I don't believe the congressman should be in office, but I don't think he should be killed either. I leave those kinds of ideas to the Nazis who have taken over the GOP.
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And if the government is trying to kill you it is just politics nothing to get violent about.
 
uke2se said:
And they are going to do that regardless of what you actually do. It's what they do. And the people who are open to listening to them will listen to them no matter what you do. It's what they do.

If you are offended enough by a North Vietnamese flag during a peace protest, or someone berating Mitch McConnell at a restaurant to stop fighting for Democratic causes (hell, let's just say 'democracy'), then you were never going to in the first place.
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********.

If we give them pictures of boorish folk berating public figures (and, honestly, few deserve it more than McConnell), then the Right can convince more folk that the Left is unhinged.

If they have to make it up out of whole cloth, fewer will be turned off by the Right's invective.

Your nihilism is simply ridiculous. Jettison all of your values, because those who vote against you would've done so anyway, and you are sure to become moral again later.

Sure. That's probably how things work.
 
phiwum said:
********.

If we give them pictures of boorish folk berating public figures (and, honestly, few deserve it more than McConnell), then the Right can convince more folk that the Left is unhinged.

If they have to make it up out of whole cloth, fewer will be turned off by the Right's invective.
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Doesn't really seem that way. Trump makes things up out of whole cloth and they become the new truth of the right and unquestionable.
 
phiwum said:
********.

If we give them pictures of boorish folk berating public figures (and, honestly, few deserve it more than McConnell), then the Right can convince more folk that the Left is unhinged.

If they have to make it up out of whole cloth, fewer will be turned off by the Right's invective.

Your nihilism is simply ridiculous. Jettison all of your values, because those who vote against you would've done so anyway, and you are sure to become moral again later.

Sure. That's probably how things work.
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I'm not a nihilist. I'm simply saying that if Democrats don't start playing the game using the same rules as their opponents, they will keep losing. That said, they will still have a moral high ground, because the GOP ceeded that years ago.

In order to fundamentally change a broken system, either you fix by first aquiring power, or you have a revolution.
 
Democrats have a long bucket list of anti-Voter supression measures ready to go, should they take the House.
This, hopefully, will make it easier to take the Senate in 2020.
As always, when it comes to Democrats, Cursed Monkey Paw Rules apply.
 
uke2se said:
I disagree. I want to see more of that kind of thing. More protests of all (peaceful) kinds. Civility doesn't matter anymore.
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Indeed, the point isn't to be civil, it's to call attention to an issue.

(And the idea that Mitch McConnell, of all people, should be treated with the upmost respect, after all the hard work he's done to ruin the US' democracy, is absurd.)
 
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