Democrats = Antifa = BS

[uke2se]

And so you would assassinate Congressmen involved in the decision?

I'm not dispassionate. I'm just not a friggin' nutcase. The exact same reasoning (with some less reliable beliefs) is precisely what led to the Squirrel Hill shooter, a man who felt aggrieved by the dastardly invasion sponsored by the Jews, a man losing his race to other races because of this invasion.

Of course, you and I regard both the facts and the values (race matters) as nonsense. But the same fundamental reasoning that would justify shooting Republicans is used to kill Jews.

I agree. There's no justification for doing what that guy did.

 

[phiwum]

What's the solution then? Quick as you like. Election today.

I can't tell you the solution.

Personally, probably won't make it to the polls today, since I'm in Massachusetts and my races are assuredly blue-tilted (aside from the governor, but he seems okay, not great, not objectionable).

If I happen by, I'll vote, though my sending a "message" will matter not one whit to anyone but me.

Devolving into incivility is not the way out of this mess, however. That much is clear.

 

[uke2se]

I can't tell you the solution.

Personally, probably won't make it to the polls today, since I'm in Massachusetts and my races are assuredly blue-tilted (aside from the governor, but he seems okay, not great, not objectionable).

If I happen by, I'll vote, though my sending a "message" will matter not one whit to anyone but me.

Devolving into incivility is not the way out of this mess, however. That much is clear.

You're effectively removing a weapon from one side that the other side uses with gusto and effectiveness.

 

[phiwum]

Then you can sit on your ivory tower and look on as the GOP sweep every election.

At least you never gave up the moral high ground. That's just as good as stopping dangerous GOP policy, right?

No, but it's better than becoming dangerous in just the same damned way.

I support decent Republicans. I want them to regain some power in their party. If Romney runs in 2020, I would vote in the Republican primary to support him.

You don't overcome monsters by becoming one yourself.

 

[phiwum]

I'll get the word out.

You ask me a question and pretend I'm being arrogant when I give my opinion.

You're being a dick, honestly. You give your opinion freely, and I gave mine. No difference at all, aside from content.

 

[uke2se]

No, but it's better than becoming dangerous in just the same damned way.

I support decent Republicans. I want them to regain some power in their party. If Romney runs in 2020, I would vote in the Republican primary to support him.

You don't overcome monsters by becoming one yourself.

But you lose the election by imposing rules on yourself that your opponent won't play by.

 

[Belz...]

You pragmatist, you.

Guilty as charged.

 

[phiwum]

I agree. There's no justification for doing what that guy did.

Which guy?

Just the Jew killer or both the Jew killer and the guy shooting at GOP lawmakers?

Sorry, your response is a little unclear. I regard both as horrible individuals (possible mental incapacities notwithstanding).

 

[phiwum]

You're effectively removing a weapon from one side that the other side uses with gusto and effectiveness.

Yes.

In the same way that we don't respond to chemical weapon attacks in Syria by launching our own chemical weapons.

 

[JoeMorgue]

You're effectively removing a weapon from one side that the other side uses with gusto and effectiveness.

No we're telling you not to trade a symbolic feel good victory for a meaningful one.

From the same David Wong article I quoted earlier (again language cleaned up for MA Purposes, bolding mine):

But politics shouldn't be fun. And the reason the right controls every level of government is that they're willing to do the boring parts. They'll go to the city council meetings, they'll vote for the local (crap), they'll actually follow through with their boycott threats. "But they've unfairly redrawn the election map!" Sure, but how did they obtain the power to do that?

They seize power because A) they believe they're entitled to it, and B) they translate that entitlement to action. If you want to copy something from the other side, (censored)ing copy that.

That just goes back to that one lesson no movie will ever teach you: Accomplishing great things isn't just hard, it's boring. Important subjects are tedious and have no entertainment value whatsoever. Standing in line to vote is boring, the actual vote itself is boring. Too boring for many of us to tolerate, even though we say the entire fate of the world hangs in the balance.

 

[ponderingturtle]

I agree. There's no justification for doing what that guy did.

Yep death totals don't matter as long as due process of law is at least vaguely followed. They should die like the worthless vermin all the poors are anyway.

Civility worth more than someone else's life.

 

[uke2se]

Which guy?

Just the Jew killer or both the Jew killer and the guy shooting at GOP lawmakers?

Sorry, your response is a little unclear. I regard both as horrible individuals (possible mental incapacities notwithstanding).

Take a pick. There's no justification for either of them. I was agreeing with you.

 

[uke2se]

No we're telling you not to trade a symbolic feel good victory for a meaningful one.

That's what I'm arguing. A moral victory isn't as good as a real one.

 

[phiwum]

You're effectively removing a weapon from one side that the other side uses with gusto and effectiveness.

Trump won by bald-faced lies creating fear and dread regarding Democrats.

You want the Democrats to make up apocalyptic ******** about Trump and the GOP in order to regain control as well?

Trump says that Dems want open borders and don't care about crime. Should Dems say Trump wants death camps and doesn't care about law at all? That is an appropriate hyperbolic response.

 

[uke2se]

Yep death totals don't matter as long as due process of law is at least vaguely followed. They should die like the worthless vermin all the poors are anyway.

Civility worth more than someone else's life.

I'm not going to defend the guy who shot the GOP congressman. I don't believe the congressman should be in office, but I don't think he should be killed either. I leave those kinds of ideas to the Nazis who have taken over the GOP.

 

[JoeMorgue]

That's what I'm arguing. A moral victory isn't as good as a real one.

Okay. Running Senator McFartFace out of a restaurant accomplishes absolutely nothing.

Winning an election accomplishes a lot.

"We run their people out of restaurants. They run ours out of office. That's why they are winning." - Bill Maher.

 

[uke2se]

Trump won by bald-faced lies creating fear and dread regarding Democrats.

You want the Democrats to make up apocalyptic ******** about Trump and the GOP in order to regain control as well?

Trump says that Dems want open borders and don't care about crime. Should Dems say Trump wants death camps and doesn't care about law at all? That is an appropriate hyperbolic response.

Sure. If it helps them win. The system is already broken. In order to fix it you need to get it out of the hands of the ones who broke it by whatever means necessary.

 

[uke2se]

Okay. Running Senator McFartFace out of a restaurant accomplishes absolutely nothing.

Winning an election accomplishes a lot.

"We run people their people out of restaurants. They run ours out of office. That's why they are winning." - Bill Maher.

There's no reason we can't do both. It's not an either/or situation.

ETA: I also don't agree that protesting McConnell at a restaurant accomplishes nothing. I don't think it accomplishes much, but it's not meaningless.

 

[Belz...]

Then you can sit on your ivory tower and look on as the GOP sweep every election.

At least you never gave up the moral high ground. That's just as good as stopping dangerous GOP policy, right?

Do you really believe that being more uncivil will turn elections?

 

[JoeMorgue]

There's no reason we can't do both. It's not an either/or situation.

But "we" don't.

Again I'll believe this "Blue Wave" of impassioned Democratic voters stepping away from getting fed a constant drip of outrage from Facebook algorithm and sharing memes about how we're the gonna be the new Nazi Germany if we don't do something.... and actually voting when I see it.

Acting outraged and acting like you are outraged are two different things. Right now sadly the people on the correct side of history are just so much better at the former than the latter.