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Cont: Brilliant Light Power Going To Market - Free Energy Generator Part 3

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Not the best way to convince people that you are honest.



No, but it is an interesting case study in how the mind of a Troo Bleever works. He'll never actually admit he was taken, no matter how often his predictions or expectations come to naught, while at the same time, he's convinced that, any day now, there will be developments that will make "some pseudoskeptics here twitchy".

And he does that in spite of the obvious evidence that every one of his predictions has been wrong, while literally none of our predictions have yet failed.
 
Markie, you claimed a Feb 2019 deadline. Until then, you can simply stop with this nonsense and shut all of us up with a working, commercially viable device.
That is only a few short months away, so surely after 30 years of fake bs you can wait that long? Right?

After all, you did set that deadline. You, yourself, right? So wait a few months and let us all witness the tapdance. Feb 2019 is only a few months away.

Does anyone happen to have the post where markie said that bookmarked, just so we can all check the wording for ourselves?

Dave
 
He's already walked that back.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?p=12438497#post12438497



When the deadline was originally agreed on, it was the deadline for markie admitting he had been "taken" by Mills. Now he flat-out denies that that is the case, and if linked to the original post where he said that, he just ignores the evidence.

Not the best way to convince people that you are honest.
Be fair, it's just that Mills is optimistic with development schedules. Sure we can look back 20 years and it was just 6 months before commercially ready, so he's out by a decade or two but he'll get there!
 
He's already walked that back.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?p=12438497#post12438497



When the deadline was originally agreed on, it was the deadline for markie admitting he had been "taken" by Mills. Now he flat-out denies that that is the case, and if linked to the original post where he said that, he just ignores the evidence.

Not the best way to convince people that you are honest.


I've never believed that Mills is trying to deceive, so if that's what you're implying by 'taken', try barking up another tree. Let me go back. At the point shortly before the SunCell, although I believed in hydrinos I was no longer confident that it was possible to harness the energy produced in a competitive way. My thinking was that nature might be opposed to prolonged high density hydrino chemistry. The SunCell changed that. Now, if the SunCell method doesn't end up working in a competitive manner - which I find extremely unlikely - then I'll be back to my pre Suncell skepticism. February 2019 is simply a date when I thought BLP was reasonably likely to have a convincing demonstration product, and if they didn't then something yet again might be thwarting prolonged high reaction kinetics of the hydrino reaction. Iirc, originally I had the date to something like 2021 but someone on the board protested so I brought the date closer.

So in a nutshell: if February 2019 comes and goes without a blow you over demonstration, it will have proven I was wrong in my date forecasting, foremost.
Secondarily, I'll have niggling doubts that the hydrino reaction can be successfully commercialized at all. But as for believing in a low energy hydrogen state? It would take a step by step process of fair and reasonable debunking of 25 years of various and wide-ranging experimental evidences and predictive theoretical work to have me doubting hydrinos.
 
I'll just drop the claims of Mills in 1991 right here again:

http://newenergytimes.com/v2/archives/fic/F/F199201.PDF.

There's some interesting stuff there. But it worries me that some of it seems to contradict stuff that markie is saying about how it's not till recently that Mills has been able to produce cells that give good power output and run continuously.

Randall Mills in 1991 said:
[...] we have right now a cell running that is a commercial demonstration of this technology. We're pushing right now...we have a contract we're pursuing that will give us a one kilowatt -- a one thousand watt home heating unit within four months. We have the electrochemical power cell -- it is running. It has the capacity of putting out a thousand watts. And we are waiting for the heat exchanger unit to interface with that [powercell] and we will have a prototype of this home heating unit.

Markie, is it true that Mills had a kilowatt commercial demonstrator cell running in 1991?

Randall Mills in 1991 said:
Then from about the spring of 1990 through now -- probably a good 500 experiments optimizing these parameters, then through the various scale ups. ... [I've experimented with] cells doing very
meticulous computer data acquisition systems that run these cells for long periods of time, turning them off and on in all kinds of conditions and parameters and all kinds of adjustments that optimize the power output, and the power density and trying to determine the economics and cost effectiveness of various configurations, going into 1-watt cells and 10-watt cells and 120 watt cells --we ran for about a month and a half and then we moved on to this cell with a thousand watt capacity. ...

Markie, was Randall Mills producing cells that ran continuously for long periods of time - "about a month and a half" - in 1991?

Randall Mills in 1991 said:
We had done about 500 experiments with this very accurate computerized data acquisition system, where we had six of these electrochemical power cells running simultaneously around the clock and we just kept changing in and out all sorts of things and just keeping it going, manning this thing all the time, just keeping it [experimental progress] going as rapidly as possible.

Markie, did Randall Mills have six cells running round the clock in 1991 that were reliable enough to carry out a series of about 500 experiments?

You see, there are only three possibilities here. Randall Mills has told a whole lot of lies, you've told a whole lot of lies, or you've both told a whole lot of lies. The one possibility that's categorically excluded is that you're both telling the truth.

Dave
 
Does anyone happen to have the post where markie said that bookmarked, just so we can all check the wording for ourselves?

Dave

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=11733698#post11733698

Aepervius said:
Promise us that in 24 month you will come back and admit you got "taken".

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=11733720#post11733720

markie said:
If there no satisfactorily proven, working prototype in 48 months, I promise to come back and eat humble pie before you, without a fork. My Google Calendar for Friday, February 26th 2021 now has an entry.
 
There's some interesting stuff there. But it worries me that some of it seems to contradict stuff that markie is saying about how it's not till recently that Mills has been able to produce cells that give good power output and run continuously.

We've definitely been though this. markie was a little perturbed initially then, IIRC, redefined what "continuously" means in order to make it fit.

Let me feed the dog, and I'll see if I can dig up the relevant posts.
 
We've definitely been though this. markie was a little perturbed initially then, IIRC, redefined what "continuously" means in order to make it fit.

Let me feed the dog, and I'll see if I can dig up the relevant posts.

ISTR these re-definitions were clearly contradictory to "we ran for about a month and a half" and "we had six of these electrochemical power cells running simultaneously around the clock." And that was in 1991, supposedly.

Dave
 
This might be the series of posts I'm thinking about, concerning an article from 1999:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=12340381#post12340381

http://www.infinite-energy.com/images/pdfs/RosenblumIE17.pdf

Randell Mills: We have people very eager to commercialize this and we’ve been able to make independent validated energy cells that produce a thousand times the energy of burning hydrogen.

AR: A thousand? I heard a hundred.

RM: Well, that was Penn [Pennsylvania] State University’s test, but they didn’t do lifetime tests, they stopped that after about 700, 800 hours—something like that, or, excuse me, minutes. They never did lifetime tests. They ran it for a finite period of time. We have done lifetime tests here with Atlantic Electric and gotten a thousand times the energy of burning hydrogen.


So, producing a thousand times the energy of burning hydrogen, for over 800 hours (or minutes - so 13 hours and 20 minutes). I'm sure markie will be able to explain why this isn't a continuous reaction, or why it doesn't produce enough energy to be commercially viable.

That's from 1999, BTW. Mills was only 6 months from commercial production at that point...

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=12340658#post12340658

The energy release was continuous alright. And the energy release was measured to be about a thousand times that of burning hydrogen. However, that was per hydrogen atom. With burning hydrogen, almost all the hydrogen is consumed. With Mills reactor at that time, only a tiny percentage of the hydrogen was converted to hydrino. So the power was low. Mills thought he could sufficiently up the portion of hydrogen converted - the reaction rate - but it didn't work.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=12340693#post12340693

This contradicts things Mills says in that same interview. For example:

The mass balance is very, very low because you get a tremendous amount of energy per atom, and the product is a lower energy chemical form of hydrogen that doesn’t burn, that’s lighter than air. So it’s very
environmentally friendly, and it turns out that the capital cost is very, very low for the equipment also. And you can use existing power conversion equipment, because it runs at very, very high power densities and very, very high temperature.



And:

How close are we? Well, the theory’s all worked out, the validations are worked out, the low energy hydrogen’s been identified, that is a product, and we have power densities equivalent to many electrical power plants and running at temperatures comparable to many electrical power plants. And we’re getting validated energy balance of a thousand times the energy of
burning hydrogen. So we know the process works and now it’s just the time it takes to retro-fit that into existing technology. We don’t have to invent anything new. We’re using vacuum furnaces and we’re going to use external combustor gas turbines, so it’s just a matter of retro-fitting it into existing technology.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=12340743#post12340743

Just read the article. I have no problems with the first quote, but I certainly do with the second quote, particularly this:

and we have power densities equivalent to many electrical power plants and running at temperatures comparable to many electrical power plants.

Frankly I can't see how this is true. I'm genuinely puzzled.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=12340767#post12340767

One possible explanation is that he's lying and always has been. Have you considered that?

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=12343595#post12343595

I went back to the article to read it more carefully. Not only had I skimmed it the first time, for some reason I thought it was only two pages long when in fact it was a dozen!

http://www.infinite-energy.com/images/pdfs/RosenblumIE17.pdf

With this larger context I've learned some things from the article itself. One is the type of hydrino production technique. This was largely a gas / vapour cell (although there is some plasma), contained in a thick stainless steel cylindrical vessel, with the gas kept at near vacuum, something like 10e-3 atmospheres. The reaction volume must be kept hot in order for potassium (vapour phase) to be doubly ionized, in order to have the correct energy to serve as a hydrino catalyst.

Temperature of the outer skin of the vessel would reach around 750 C. In other words, the context of power and temperature regards the outer surface of the stainless steel. So I've concluded that Mill's use of the term 'power density' was surface power density, rather than volumetric power density. Just like the Sun has the volumetric power density of a composite heap but vast surface power density, so with this reaction vessel. With the inside of the vessel being near vacuum, there is no way Mills could be referring to volumetric power density imo.

Also, even the word 'continuous' means something different here. With the Suncell, continuous means that the ignitions are close enough together to appear as a continuous reaction. For example, a short BLP video at
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfGgHD8e9sM
shows a pretty continuous operation.

But with this gaseous cell from 1997, continuous was contrasted with 'batch'.
To explain: For testing the cell would be near vacuum, with potassium metal inside heated sufficiently to ionize to K+2. A small amount of H2 was added and the vessel sealed. The H2 was dissociated by contact with a hot tungsten plate, forming atomic H. This atomic H would over time drop to lower and lower hydrino states, releasing huge amounts of energy per atom. So in a single batch run, the vessel would get hotter and hotter until the hydrogen was all used and the atomic hydrino had eventually all converted to dihydrino gas and hence would become nonreactive.

During a batch run the hydrino reactions themselves were continuous.
But in the context of a larger time frame it was still a single batch ; hydrogen was not being added. So in this larger time context it was not continuous.

But they were working on making it continuous. Here's an extract from page 28, my bold:

AR: Eventually, can the process run continuously?

RM: It can run continuously, yes. We've done that. Where you feed in new hydrogen.

AR: At a controlled rate, just as fast as it's needed?

RM: [Changed the subject!]


Yes, Mills didn't answer the question. Clearly they had not achieved this imo.
So this it seems to me is why this method of hydrino generation ultimately didn't work out. They couldn't successfully transition between from batch to continuous operation while simultaneously maintaining high enough temperatures.

Lowdown: It's settled in my mind, Mills gets a pass here. No doubt the skeptics here will protest. Oh well. The batch run experiments were validated as releasing heat energy far exceeding electrical energy input. That's good enough for me.

BTW that article makes for very good reading for both the beginner and the relatively experienced in matters of Dr. Mills and his GUTCP.

So, yes, a redefinition of "continuous".

I'm sure I've also discussed that interview from 1991 - I've certainly discussed it - but I can't find it from searching.
 
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I have already posted here in the past, that if a SunCell of some sort is not working (to my satisfaction) within 2 years I will seriously reconsider my beliefs and let this forum know. The date on my Google Calendar for this is Feb 26 2019.

It all comes down to how he spins "to my satisfaction." I think it's safe to say a good deal of the demos being posted to the BLP YouTube channel are working to Markie's satisfaction.
 
It all comes down to how he spins "to my satisfaction." I think it's safe to say a good deal of the demos being posted to the BLP YouTube channel are working to Markie's satisfaction.

One major problem with the SunCell has been getting it to produce a continuous reaction. It was a major breakthrough at BLP when they discovered that they could extend the duration of YouTube videos of the reaction by deploying a high speed camera.

I suspect that their current development focus is to come up with even faster cameras in order to extend the duration even further!
 
Reading markie's re-spinning of Mills' verbiage, one might almost suspect his mission is to be here papering over inconsistencies for any marks investors who might stumble upon our telling vivisection of the zombie-like scam and the documenting of its full history.

Only his tepid consenting to admit to being hoodwinked (although that's in dispute) provides some wiggle room to take him as merely an observer and enthusiast.
 
There's some interesting stuff there. But it worries me that some of it seems to contradict stuff that markie is saying about how it's not till recently that Mills has been able to produce cells that give good power output and run continuously.


Markie, is it true that Mills had a kilowatt commercial demonstrator cell running in 1991?

With some qualifications, yes.
First: "commercial demonstrator cell" should be understood as "demonstrator cell for a proposed commercial unit".
Second: Mills said the cell had the 'capacity' to run at a kilowatt, so that implies to me it wasn't there yet. Otherwise I would think he would have straight-out said it was running at a kilowatt. But maybe it was.
Third: It is unclear how much of that kilowatt of heat output was actually excess energy. Maybe it had a COP of just 2 and had an input of 500 watts of electricity.
Fourth: It is unclear how big the thing was. Perhaps it required 1000 litres of electrolytic solution, I don't know.


Markie, was Randall Mills producing cells that ran continuously for long periods of time - "about a month and a half" - in 1991?

Sure, so did Thermacore later on. Longer that that.


Markie, did Randall Mills have six cells running round the clock in 1991 that were reliable enough to carry out a series of about 500 experiments?

Why is that unreasonable? It makes total sense that in order to time efficiently explore the parameter space one would have multiple units running at one time.
So yes, he did.

You see, there are only three possibilities here. Randall Mills has told a whole lot of lies, you've told a whole lot of lies, or you've both told a whole lot of lies. The one possibility that's categorically excluded is that you're both telling the truth.

His first name is spelled "Randell". And I think you need a course in logical deduction.
 
It all comes down to how he spins "to my satisfaction." I think it's safe to say a good deal of the demos being posted to the BLP YouTube channel are working to Markie's satisfaction.


None have met with my satisfaction yet. I'm certainly pleased with some bits and pieces of the progress but it has yet to all come together.
 
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