Cont: The Trump Presidency X: 10-10 'til we do it again

[WilliamSeger]

Wow, and I almost believed him when he criticised Obama for golfing and said he'd always be on the job. Silly me.

Hey, Trump is so busy these days monitoring what Fake News is saying about Trump, he hardly has any time for golf.

 

[FenerFan]

Trump Tweets

"There is great anger in our Country caused in part by inaccurate, and even fraudulent, reporting of the news. The Fake News Media, the true Enemy of the People, must stop the open & obvious hostility & report the news accurately & fairly. That will do much to put out the flame..."

"....of Anger and Outrage and we will then be able to bring all sides together in Peace and Harmony. Fake News Must End!"

Just incredible. The man is an ass with no conscience. Whenever I think he can't get worse, he does.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

Has Trump gotten away with turning the greatest political assassination attempt in US history into a minor partisan hickup?

 

[JoeMorgue]

Has Trump gotten away with turning the greatest political assassination attempt in US history into a minor partisan hickup?

It's the political **** up equivalent of a Gish Gallop.

Again he's so wrong about so much so often that we can't focus on anything.


//Although minor quibble I would put the attempted 1919 Anarchist Bombings and 1954 Capital Shooting a little higher on the "greatest political assassination attempt in US History" but that's a fair difference of perspective and definitional quibbling.//

 

[Regnad Kcin]

Just a small plaque? How unbenefiting such a grand monument to bigotry and stupidity. Doesn't Trump have several sets of giant letters that are no longer needed elsewhere.?

THE TRUMP TAJ MAWALL​

 

[phiwum]

Maybe, or maybe it's one of those little things that gives a window into how someone truly thinks.

Not in any deep or interesting sense.

This is a man who says outright that Mexico is "sending" rapists, that Soros is funding a caravan that has been infiltrated by "middle Easterners". You think we learn anything deep or interesting about him based on how he treats an umbrella?

Silliness.

 

[phiwum]

Has Trump gotten away with turning the greatest political assassination attempt in US history into a minor partisan hickup?

I'm not sure it was an assassination attempt. The fact that not a single bomb went off might suggest that the sole aim was terror, not assassination.

Of course, I'll change my mind based on FBI analyses. And, of course, I don't doubt that the devices were dangerous.

 

[ponderingturtle]

I'm not sure it was an assassination attempt. The fact that not a single bomb went off might suggest that the sole aim was terror, not assassination.

Of course, I'll change my mind based on FBI analyses. And, of course, I don't doubt that the devices were dangerous.

Yet you suggest above that they were not intended to explode. Or do you think the real target was their assistants?

 

[uke2se]

I'm not sure it was an assassination attempt. The fact that not a single bomb went off might suggest that the sole aim was terror, not assassination.

Of course, I'll change my mind based on FBI analyses. And, of course, I don't doubt that the devices were dangerous.

Best way to make sure they don't explode is to not include explosives.

 

[Segnosaur]

Lets face it, Trump's base of supporters isn't really smart enough to talk about the real issues. They will eagerly swallow any bunk that Trump spews out, regardless of whether it would actually work, or whether it contradicts something Trump had previously said.

Maybe when dealing with Trump, petty might actually work. The racist Trump supporter (well, ok that is a bit redundant) isn't smart enough to understand "Oh, Trump is lying when he talks about republicans supporting health coverage for pre-existing conditions", but perhaps they may be smart enough to understand "The president's penis is small so he is not as manly as I want the president to be" or "The president is too dumb to operate an umbrella", and thus decide to not vote for him.

Nonsense. Instead, the base views it as an unwarranted personal attack on
Trump and becomes that much more disgusted with the "other side".

And then do what? Vote for Trump a second time?

If you honestly think that you can find a Trump supporter who says, "I thought his policies were okay until I saw online complaints about his handling of umbrellas and the size of his penis. I'm going for Dems this time around," I'd sure as hell like to see you try. It's a silly tactic (but most folk mocking him about the umbrella, say, are just venting).

I doubt very much whether there will be many Trump supporters switching to the Democrats regardless of what political tactics are used. The Trump supporter with a confederate flag on his truck chanting "Lock her up! Build that wall" won't abandon Trump because he gives them the racism that they desire. (Anyone who does switch will probably do so because they were personally harmed.... the farmer who got caught in a trade war, the ex-coal miner who can't get health insurance, etc.)

The best we can do is to demotivate Trump supporters. So that Trump supporter will be less likely to want to go to the polls. While some may see references to the mushroom and Umbrellagate as personal attacks, others may see them as "Ok, personal attacks. Still like what Trump says about those evil foreigners but he's less of a manly man for me to actually go vote."

 

[phiwum]

Best way to make sure they don't explode is to not include explosives.

Totally never suggested that the activity wasn't dangerous or that it wasn't intended to spread terror.

I only said that it's not yet clear to me that it was an assassination attempt. If it was, then it was terribly botched, 0 for 14. If not, it was terroristic and dangerous as hell, and both these things are quite bad, but neither are the same as assassination attempts.

I'll be interested to learn more as evidence becomes public.

 

[phiwum]

And then do what? Vote for Trump a second time?

Without a doubt. Attacks viewed as unfair on one's leaders often end up increasing loyalty.

I doubt very much whether there will be many Trump supporters switching to the Democrats regardless of what political tactics are used. The Trump supporter with a confederate flag on his truck chanting "Lock her up! Build that wall" won't abandon Trump because he gives them the racism that they desire. (Anyone who does switch will probably do so because they were personally harmed.... the farmer who got caught in a trade war, the ex-coal miner who can't get health insurance, etc.)

The best we can do is to demotivate Trump supporters. So that Trump supporter will be less likely to want to go to the polls. While some may see references to the mushroom and Umbrellagate as personal attacks, others may see them as "Ok, personal attacks. Still like what Trump says about those evil foreigners but he's less of a manly man for me to actually go vote."

Not likely to happen. I think it's a totally stupid strategy, leading only to loyalty based on defense of the "unfairly" treated.

Don't bother pointing out that Trump successfully uses unfair treatment of his opponents. His base is not the Dems' base nor the independents.

No man says, "Well, would've gone Trump and GOP this year, but that small pecker of his suggests it's not worth my effort." They are more likely to say, "What scurrilous lies those others spread! Let's give 'em what for!"

ETA: Such stupid criticisms also spread the myth of Fake News that Trump uses effectively, even though the MSM doesn't discuss the shape of Trump's peepee or his facility with an umbrella.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

I'm not sure it was an assassination attempt. The fact that not a single bomb went off might suggest that the sole aim was terror, not assassination.

Of course, I'll change my mind based on FBI analyses. And, of course, I don't doubt that the devices were dangerous.

this is a distinction never made before in similar cases - why would we make one now?

 

[phiwum]

this is a distinction never made before in similar cases - why would we make one now?

I don't understand what you mean.

Attempted assassination aims to kill a person. It is a case of attempted murder.

Scaring someone with a dangerous item, but one not intended to go off (like a bomb without a trigger, though I'm not convinced yet that these were such) is not attempted murder, but it is a form of terrorism and, in this case, violates laws about sending explosive through the mail.

I expect that if I threaten to kill someone with an inoperable gun[1], I'm guilty of many crimes, but not attempted murder (assuming that there's no known heart condition, etc.).

A very bad act. Not attempted murder, which is also very bad. Not sexual assault either, which is also very bad.

Once again: I don't know that the bombs were purposely inoperative (though dangerous nonetheless) since I have heard the evidence. I will wait and see.

[1] A gun, that is, that I know is inoperable. Again, if the bomber believed the bombs would go off, then I'll buy attempted assassination. I just don't know yet whether that's the case.

 

[JoeMorgue]

Oh Jesus Christ are we still on about this?

You don't mail explosives to people to scare them. You mail a pipe full of sand with a kitchen timer glued to it to people if you want to scare them.

You mail explosives to people if you want to kill them. How competent you are at bomb making doesn't change this.

One of the bombs had ball bearings in it. How does that fit into the "They were just meant to scare them?" narrative.

Tell you what. If anyone is still having a problem with this go rob a bank with a fake gun. When you get out of prison you can update us on how it worked out for you.

 

[acbytesla]

Truth be told I think this is a factor that is overlooked and undervalued a lot when we judge Presidents; the ability to pick and good cabinet, to walk that fine line between obstructionist that keeps you from getting anything done and sycophant who won't tell you when you are going to far.

Trump is most certainly very, very low on that scale. Outside of Mathis (and I doubt Trump picked him for any of his qualities and only saw him as Loud, Angry, Conservative White Guy) he's scoring a zero across the board.

Surrounding himself with better people might not make Trump a "better" President by whatever metric one wants to use, but it would certainly make him a less damaging one.

I knew we were in very big trouble when in The first cabinet meeting pretty much all the cabinet heads took turns praising him. It was the most bizarre thing I ever saw. It told me very clearly that they were chosen because of their ass kissing skills. This wasn't the group of people who would speak truth to power.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

I don't understand what you mean.

The presumption is these cases has always been that the threat was real - during trial, mitigating circumstances might be discussed.

The fact that Trump&co. have managed to invert this is mind-blowing.


We don't know why the bombs didn't explode - at this point we have no reason to assume that they were never meant to.
from VOX:

FBI Director Christopher Wray said “these were not hoax devices,” indicating the bomber tried but failed to make the explosives work.

But in any case, he send explosives through the mail. endangering everyone along the transport chain. Depending on how the packages were handled and what the reaction had been upon discovery, they could have cost lives due to panic, bad disposal methods etc.
Treating this as anything but an actual attack is simply unprecedented.

 

[pgwenthold]

Oh Jesus Christ are we still on about this?

You don't mail explosives to people to scare them. You mail a pipe full of sand with a kitchen timer glued to it to people if you want to scare them.

You mail explosives to people if you want to kill them. How competent you are at bomb making doesn't change this.

One of the bombs had ball bearings in it. How does that fit into the "They were just meant to scare them?" narrative.

Tell you what. If anyone is still having a problem with this go rob a bank with a fake gun. When you get out of prison you can update us on how it worked out for you.

Better, bring a loaded gun to a Trump rally. I guarantee you will not get anywhere near to the point where you could take a shot, but it would still be considered an assassination attempt

 

[WilliamSeger]

I knew we were in very big trouble when in The first cabinet meeting pretty much all the cabinet heads took turns praising him. It was the most bizarre thing I ever saw. It told me very clearly that they were chosen because of their ass kissing skills. This wasn't the group of people who would speak truth to power.

That was like a scene from a dystopian movie where the camera might have zoomed back to show the guards pointing guns.

 

[LSSBB]

Totally never suggested that the activity wasn't dangerous or that it wasn't intended to spread terror.

I only said that it's not yet clear to me that it was an assassination attempt. If it was, then it was terribly botched, 0 for 14. If not, it was terroristic and dangerous as hell, and both these things are quite bad, but neither are the same as assassination attempts.

I'll be interested to learn more as evidence becomes public.

If you aren't bright enough to make one bomb right, you very well may make 14 bombs wrong. Be glad he's not the Unabomber.