Democrats = Antifa = BS

[uke2se]

No, no, NO!

LE, the military and intelligence services from socialist and communist nations have never violated anyone's rights that didn't have it coming.

Law enforcement misconduct was invented by fascists, perfected by Americans and has never been carried out by anyone other than those two groups.

Thank Dog nobody is talking about setting up a Communist state in the US then. The same can't be said of the other side.

 

[Mumbles]

And I can use those same justifcations for violence to keep "Commies" from gaining power or influence.

Well...

If those "Commies" were planning a violent attack on a community under the thin guise of "free speech":

If, this is known, as they themselves write these plans out in public, on the Internet:

If, when presented with evidence of this, both the town council and groups like the ACLU insist that this is idle talk, and the rally must be allowed under "free speech":

Would you not be grateful if a group similarly outfitted for violence (let's call them "antico") showed up to fight in defense of nonviolent protestors, houses of worship, and civilians that simply lived in the town, particularly if you knew that police had a nasty habit of allowing "Commies" to run rampant?

Note that this is what happened in Charlottesville. And by the way, shame on the ACLU for siding with the white nationalists, I'm happy they said they'll be more careful in the future, but they dropped the ball hard on that one.

I don't quite buy that "Unite the Right 2" was a bust just because of Antifa. That one was in DC, where the police are much less tolerant of weapons, and there's a much larger, and far more hostile surrounding population. Nevertheless, an even battle was preferable to white nationalists rampaging through the streets and murdering innocent people, which was their plan.

 

[Baylor]

It is to stop fascists from gaining power or influence. I don't think their methods are counter productive. They helped drive the Nazis underground again after Charlottesville. Nowadays the alt-right fascists are glad to get 20 people show up at their rallies, and they are always drowned out by the counter-protesters.

Thank Dog nobody is talking about setting up a Communist state in the US then. The same can't be said of the other side.

Please don't get your news sources about America from BBC or the Local. You have a warped view of what goes on in America. The America you describe is a fantasy land.

 

[dudalb]

Please don't get your news sources about America from BBC or the Local. You have a warped view of what goes on in America. The America you describe is a fantasy land.

Maybe, but so the version of America presented on Fox News and Briebart.

 

[Delvo]

One side picks out the worst image they can find somewhere in the other side and acts as if that were the entire other side? Wow, it's unprecedented!

 

[Brainster]

No, anti-facist doesn't mean anti-conservative.

So you agree that conservatives are not fascists?

If you uphold democracy, Antifa has no beef with you.
But plenty Republicans support voter suppression aimed at minorities, which is explicitly anti-democratic.

Yeah, as Ned Stark said, everything before the "but" is bullcrap.

 

[Brainster]

Proving my point that ridicule hits authoritarians of any stripe harder than blows.

You can't deal with the fact that antifa is a bunch of marginal idiots functionally no different than the marginal idiots they claim to be "protecting" us from.

Just be honest enough to admit it. You're in favor of vigilante mob violence with the proviso that you approve of who the victims are. I know plenty of right wing idiots that agree with you.

Excellently stated, sir!

 

[Lambchops]

Lol, no.

 

[smartcooky]

I cannot applaude this loudly enough.

I am no pacifist (as my sig shows) and if a Neo Nazi attacks you you have every right to defend yourself, but to go out and physically attack a person, however obnoxious,just because you don't like what he is saying is wrong,wrong,wrong.
And it is easy to advocate violence and be a heroic Revolutionary from the safety of your computer keyboard.

100% agree

We recently had some far-right wing speakers coming to this country (Lauren Southern and Stefan Molyneux) for a public speaking engagement. They were basically stopped in their tracks because in one case, the Mayor of Auckland, Phill Goff, refused to grant them use of a Council owned Hall, and then the second privately owned venues cancelled the events after they received threats of violence, vandalism and retribution.

I find the racist and bigoted views of these two speakers, Southern and Molyneux, disgusting. But I am just as disgusted they they were not allowed to express their opinions. However outrageous we might find their rhetoric, a properly civilised society would not have prevented them from exercising their free speech rights.

Stifling of free speech is not the second wrong that makes the first wrong right.

 

[uke2se]

100% agree

We recently had some far-right wing speakers coming to this country (Lauren Southern and Stefan Molyneux) for a public speaking engagement. They were basically stopped in their tracks because in one case, the Mayor of Auckland, Phill Goff, refused to grant them use of a Council owned Hall, and then the second privately owned venues cancelled the events after they received threats of violence, vandalism and retribution.

I find the racist and bigoted views of these two speakers, Southern and Molyneux, disgusting. But I am just as disgusted they they were not allowed to express their opinions. However outrageous we might find their rhetoric, a properly civilised society would not have prevented them from exercising their free speech rights.

Stifling of free speech is not the second wrong that makes the first wrong right.

Perfect use of no-platforming to help stop the spread of the alt-right infection.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

So you agree that conservatives are not fascists?
.

Conservatism isn't Fascism.

but plenty of current self-declared Conservatives are clearly authoritarian, xenophobic and nationalistic (including the President).
They are also much quicker to condemn left-wing than right-wing violence, even though the latter is objectively more problematic today.

It isn't unreasonable to remind Republicans what their current rhetoric and policies resemble, historically,

 

[Mumbles]

100% agree

We recently had some far-right wing speakers coming to this country (Lauren Southern and Stefan Molyneux) for a public speaking engagement. They were basically stopped in their tracks because in one case, the Mayor of Auckland, Phill Goff, refused to grant them use of a Council owned Hall, and then the second privately owned venues cancelled the events after they received threats of violence, vandalism and retribution.

I find the racist and bigoted views of these two speakers, Southern and Molyneux, disgusting. But I am just as disgusted they they were not allowed to express their opinions. However outrageous we might find their rhetoric, a properly civilised society would not have prevented them from exercising their free speech rights.

Stifling of free speech is not the second wrong that makes the first wrong right.

Here's the thing:

We've seen a number of these genocidal speakers basically quit. Their funding is choked off, they can't really make ends meet, they have to go work at...McDonald's or whatever.

Why?

In their own words, they were deplatformed. They can't spread their message, they aren't recruiting anyone. When's the last time you heard of that Milo whatever guy? And did we lose anything of substance when he up and vanished?

So Lauren Southern and Stephan Molyneux were banned. So, in terms of real debate about anything aside from "aboriginals are low IQ, they deserved what they got." One's a white nationalist, the other a cult leader wannabe. Why give them a platform to begin with?

As an American, we try to keep government out of these issues as much as possible, but I think it's fine if everyone looks at a conference that invites, say, Steve Bannon, and just says "I'm out, unless he's out". Instead of just having friendly talks, or even supposedly hostile talks, with bigots of any sort, why not starve them out entirely?

It's not like this is just some friendly chat - the nationalists, the supremacists, are serious about their goals of eventually killing as people as possible...

 

[Mumbles]

Conservatism isn't Fascism.

but plenty of current self-declared Conservatives are clearly authoritarian, xenophobic and nationalistic (including the President).
They are also much quicker to condemn left-wing than right-wing violence, even though the latter is objectively more problematic today.

It isn't unreasonable to remind Republicans what their current rhetoric and policies resemble, historically,

Yep. It's a serious mistake to consider "Republican" as anything but a label for a political party.

(and yes, the same does go for "democrat", "libertarian", and so on)

 

[uke2se]

Conservatism isn't Fascism.

but plenty of current self-declared Conservatives are clearly authoritarian, xenophobic and nationalistic (including the President).
They are also much quicker to condemn left-wing than right-wing violence, even though the latter is objectively more problematic today.

It isn't unreasonable to remind Republicans what their current rhetoric and policies resemble, historically,

The Conservative movement started as a reaction to the birth of liberal Democracy. The Conservatives worked to retain as much of the old way of absolute monarchistic rule as possible, and preferrably return to it alltogether. Fascism grew out of the Conservative movement.

Fascism is thus a subset of Conservative.

 

[ponderingturtle]

Proving my point that ridicule hits authoritarians of any stripe harder than blows.

Of course it is the same antifa doing the recording, so you are against the recording too. But you like to no true scotsman's them out of existence.

 

[ponderingturtle]

Like at Tiananmen Square?

Those were foreign police. I mean it is really kind of shocking that the police in the march on selma dealing with those criminal protestors get criticised now. If it happened today they would be national heroes. That is exactly the response people want to criminal protests blocking highways.

 

[ponderingturtle]

Law enforcement misconduct was invented by fascists, perfected by Americans and has never been carried out by anyone other than those two groups.

How is it misconduct when it is near universal? That seems to be basic conduct. Cops love their fellow fascists, and only act against them in the most extreme situations.

 

[ponderingturtle]

Perfect use of no-platforming to help stop the spread of the alt-right infection.

But people are entitled to a platform to preach for the extermination of the lesser races!

 

[ponderingturtle]

Here's the thing:

We've seen a number of these genocidal speakers basically quit. Their funding is choked off, they can't really make ends meet, they have to go work at...McDonald's or whatever.

Which is of course worse than actual genocide.

 

[baron]

Here's the thing:

We've seen a number of these genocidal speakers basically quit. Their funding is choked off, they can't really make ends meet, they have to go work at...McDonald's or whatever.

Why?

In their own words, they were deplatformed. They can't spread their message, they aren't recruiting anyone. When's the last time you heard of that Milo whatever guy? And did we lose anything of substance when he up and vanished?

So Lauren Southern and Stephan Molyneux were banned. So, in terms of real debate about anything aside from "aboriginals are low IQ, they deserved what they got." One's a white nationalist, the other a cult leader wannabe. Why give them a platform to begin with?

As an American, we try to keep government out of these issues as much as possible, but I think it's fine if everyone looks at a conference that invites, say, Steve Bannon, and just says "I'm out, unless he's out". Instead of just having friendly talks, or even supposedly hostile talks, with bigots of any sort, why not starve them out entirely?

It's not like this is just some friendly chat - the nationalists, the supremacists, are serious about their goals of eventually killing as people as possible...

My God, people actually believe this crap? It's pretty easy to defend free speech when free speech is defined as stuff you agree with, not to mention morally bankrupt.