Rethink your Trump hatred ?

[The Great Zaganza]

Not entirely. I want the Democrats to agree with the Republicans when appropriate. I want the Republicans to do the same, but their behavior during Obama's term suggests they are unwilling to do so.

Past behavior suggests there is not a symmetry here. Nonetheless, I don't want Democrats to adopt Republican strategies.

Some issues should be consistent with both camps.

You are right, of course.

What I meant was that in a system of two parties, you should always pick the Lesser Evil: there is no point in waiting for the perfect candidate with the perfect platform. being better than the alternative should be enough to improve life for everyone over a number of election cycles.

 

[theprestige]

River, you claim that Trump was the better choice, yet haven't explained why. You only talked about what made Clinton "bad" - stuff that you were wrong about.

Reasons Trump was a better choice:

1) Ideological ignorance. At 70 years old, it's obvious that Trump doesn't have an ideological bone in his body. No axe to grind, no agenda to push through, no higher purpose than to ride the ride, get the t-shirt, and congratulate himself on being The Best Ever.

2) No political allies. He's too opportunistic to even be a RINO, and the GOP knows it. And of course the Dems know he's got nothing to offer them right now.

3) Corollary to (2), no political traction. He's got some populist themes he can hammer on, and some of them even have enough popular support to pressure Congress, but that's about as far as it goes. The GOP is going to push whatever agenda they were going to push anyway, and try to work with him just far enough to keep him from obstructing them.

4) Judges.

5) "Deplorables". Not the comment itself, but the sentiment behind it. The sentiment you oh-so-coyly pretend it's safe to express here on this forum, because all those rubes out in flyover country can't possibly know what you really think about them. Protip: We know. And we know that it's been how you feel since long before Trump came on the scene.

6) Double standard. Incompetence can be excused when Obama does it? Okay, have an incompetent president. Dishonesty is okay when Hillary Clinton does it? Okay, have a dishonest president. Accusations of rape are meaningless when they're leveled against Bill? Okay, have Trump.

This is less about specific policies and more about the overall dysfunction of our political class, and the overall attitude of the political establishment on both sides, and the overall attitude especially of progressives. Trump's nomination should have been a wake up call to the GOP establishment. His election should have been a wake up call to the DNC.

Me? I voted for Trump after eight years of "Bushitler", and eight years of handwaving about Obama. After coming to the table time and again, only to get spit on by the folks sitting across from me - regularly, on this forum - I saw a chance in 2016 to flip the table for once, and took it. Now I'm waiting to see if I should go ahead and flip the table again in 2020. I guess we'll see if the tone changes around here after December 4.

And also judges.

 

[BobTheCoward]

Me? I voted for Trump after eight years of "Bushitler", and eight years of handwaving about Obama. After coming to the table time and again, only to get spit on by the folks sitting across from me - regularly, on this forum - I saw a chance in 2016 to flip the table for once, and took it. Now I'm waiting to see if I should go ahead and flip the table again in 2020. I guess we'll see if the tone changes around here after December 4.

And also judges.

When people insult me, I don't resort to childish table flipping like I'm a real housewife of orange county. I try to better myself.

 

[Slings and Arrows]

Reasons Trump was a better choice:

1) Ideological ignorance. At 70 years old, it's obvious that Trump doesn't have an ideological bone in his body. No axe to grind, no agenda to push through, no higher purpose than to ride the ride, get the t-shirt, and congratulate himself on being The Best Ever.

2) No political allies. He's too opportunistic to even be a RINO, and the GOP knows it. And of course the Dems know he's got nothing to offer them right now.

3) Corollary to (2), no political traction. He's got some populist themes he can hammer on, and some of them even have enough popular support to pressure Congress, but that's about as far as it goes. The GOP is going to push whatever agenda they were going to push anyway, and try to work with him just far enough to keep him from obstructing them.

4) Judges.

5) "Deplorables". Not the comment itself, but the sentiment behind it. The sentiment you oh-so-coyly pretend it's safe to express here on this forum, because all those rubes out in flyover country can't possibly know what you really think about them. Protip: We know. And we know that it's been how you feel since long before Trump came on the scene.

6) Double standard. Incompetence can be excused when Obama does it? Okay, have an incompetent president. Dishonesty is okay when Hillary Clinton does it? Okay, have a dishonest president. Accusations of rape are meaningless when they're leveled against Bill? Okay, have Trump.

This is less about specific policies and more about the overall dysfunction of our political class, and the overall attitude of the political establishment on both sides, and the overall attitude especially of progressives. Trump's nomination should have been a wake up call to the GOP establishment. His election should have been a wake up call to the DNC.

Me? I voted for Trump after eight years of "Bushitler", and eight years of handwaving about Obama. After coming to the table time and again, only to get spit on by the folks sitting across from me - regularly, on this forum - I saw a chance in 2016 to flip the table for once, and took it. Now I'm waiting to see if I should go ahead and flip the table again in 2020. I guess we'll see if the tone changes around here after December 4.

And also judges.

Love the judges! They will be on the court for the next 30 years. And hopefully, Trump will appoint at least 2 more -- fingers crossed!

 

[BobTheCoward]

Love the judges! They will be on the court for the next 30 years. And hopefully, Trump will appoint at least 2 more -- fingers crossed!

Do you actually think these judges are appropriately interpreting the constitution?

 

[TomB]

I'd sell my soul to have just 24 hours were in political discussions everybody had to argue postively for whatever candidate/side/party/method they support without any reference to any other "side."

Agree.

It would be nice to have more reasons to vote FOR a candidate than reasons to vote AGAINST their opponent.

 

[theprestige]

When people insult me, I don't resort to childish table flipping like I'm a real housewife of orange county. I try to better myself.

ETA: I have no opinion about that. I take that back.

Pretty much everything about your process, as evidenced in your body of work here, seems wrongheaded, unsuccessful, and often counter-productive. In my opinion, your advice is generally better ignored.

 

[TomB]

Not entirely. I want the Democrats to agree with the Republicans when appropriate. I want the Republicans to do the same, but their behavior during Obama's term suggests they are unwilling to do so.

Past behavior suggests there is not a symmetry here. Nonetheless, I don't want Democrats to adopt Republican strategies.

Some issues should be consistent with both camps.

I agree with this, though I am less enthusiastic about Democratic strategies. Though they have been, admittedly, better than Republican strategies.

It would be nice if political campaigns were more about competing ideas and less about who is the least vile. The two parties should be opponents, not enemies.

 

[Imhotep]

Reasons Trump was a better choice:

1) Ideological ignorance. At 70 years old, it's obvious that Trump doesn't have an ideological bone in his body. No axe to grind, no agenda to push through, no higher purpose than to ride the ride, get the t-shirt, and congratulate himself on being The Best Ever.

2) No political allies. He's too opportunistic to even be a RINO, and the GOP knows it. And of course the Dems know he's got nothing to offer them right now.

3) Corollary to (2), no political traction. He's got some populist themes he can hammer on, and some of them even have enough popular support to pressure Congress, but that's about as far as it goes. The GOP is going to push whatever agenda they were going to push anyway, and try to work with him just far enough to keep him from obstructing them.

4) Judges.

5) "Deplorables". Not the comment itself, but the sentiment behind it. The sentiment you oh-so-coyly pretend it's safe to express here on this forum, because all those rubes out in flyover country can't possibly know what you really think about them. Protip: We know. And we know that it's been how you feel since long before Trump came on the scene.

6) Double standard. Incompetence can be excused when Obama does it? Okay, have an incompetent president. Dishonesty is okay when Hillary Clinton does it? Okay, have a dishonest president. Accusations of rape are meaningless when they're leveled against Bill? Okay, have Trump.

This is less about specific policies and more about the overall dysfunction of our political class, and the overall attitude of the political establishment on both sides, and the overall attitude especially of progressives. Trump's nomination should have been a wake up call to the GOP establishment. His election should have been a wake up call to the DNC.

Me? I voted for Trump after eight years of "Bushitler", and eight years of handwaving about Obama. After coming to the table time and again, only to get spit on by the folks sitting across from me - regularly, on this forum - I saw a chance in 2016 to flip the table for once, and took it. Now I'm waiting to see if I should go ahead and flip the table again in 2020. I guess we'll see if the tone changes around here after December 4.

And also judges.

This is a good post.

May I ask what you like about Republican nominees for SC over Democrat nominees?

 

[theprestige]

I'd sell my soul to have just 24 hours were in political discussions everybody had to argue postively for whatever candidate/side/party/method they support without any reference to any other "side."

Your body of work, going back to before your name change, shows little evidence of real interest in such a discussion. It's long on complaining about everyone else's posts, and extremely short on the kind of positive contribution you seem to believe this place needs.

 

[JoeMorgue]

Your body of work, going back to before your name change, shows little evidence of real interest in such a discussion. It's long on complaining about everyone else's posts, and extremely short on the kind of positive contribution you seem to believe this place needs.

Your opinion is duily noted.

 

[BobTheCoward]

ETA: I have no opinion about that. I take that back.

Pretty much everything about your process, as evidenced in your body of work here, seems wrongheaded, unsuccessful, and often counter-productive. In my opinion, your advice is generally better ignored.

I'm not the one admitting to thinking flipping over a table is how to handle a problem.

But I'm seeing the similarity between you and this person

https://giphy.com/gifs/realitytvgifs-rhonj-real-housewives-of-new-jersey-table-flip-SrDsJj5i1Chm8

ETA: I don't succeed, but I don't claim I did or flip a table to stop debate flipping over a table is an escape hath for failing to keep your cool and convince others of your ideas. I don't hold others in contempt for failing to convincr them to accept my ideas.

 

[theprestige]

This is a good post.

May I ask what you like about Republican nominees for SC over Democrat nominees?

Greater chance of less penumbras, hopefully.

 

[Nay_Sayer]

I rethought it, I now loathe him. Did I do it right?

 

[theprestige]

I'm not the one admitting to thinking flipping over a table is how to handle a problem.

But I'm seeing the similarity between you and this person

https://giphy.com/gifs/realitytvgifs-rhonj-real-housewives-of-new-jersey-table-flip-SrDsJj5i1Chm8

ETA: I don't succeed, but I don't claim I did or flip a table to stop debate flipping over a table is an escape hath for failing to keep your cool and convince others of your ideas. I don't hold others in contempt for failing to convincr them to accept my ideas.

I think this may be the first genuine human reaction I've gotten from you.

Also, her form is terrible.

 

[Imhotep]

delete

 

[BobTheCoward]

I think this may be the first genuine human reaction I've gotten from you.

Also, her form is terrible.

Back to the judges thing, are you religious!

 

[JoeMorgue]

I rethought it, I now loathe him. Did I do it right?

No because it's about what's best for the country, not a game of who hates Donald Trump the most.

I keep having to come across as if I'm defending Trump. I'm not I loathe the man. But hating him is not the key to victory here.

You think Trump feels bad that a bunch of what he thinks of as snowflake libruls hate him?

 

[Imhotep]

Greater chance of less penumbras, hopefully.

If you want to be more specific, I hereby encourage it

Are there specific rights implied by the Bill of Rights that you don't want the Supreme Court to grant to citizens?

 

[The Great Zaganza]

You think Trump feels bad that a bunch of what he thinks of as snowflake libruls hate him?

yes he does.
Clearest sign is how much he watches and reads the news he calls Fake; his entire life he has been a Democrat on issues he actually thought about.
He wants to be accepted and respected by the people who never will, because they can see through him.