Elizabeth Warren Ancestry Thread

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The Great Zaganza said:
If nothing else, this Warren-bashing shows that critics have nothing more serious to attack top 2020 Democratic candidates with.
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These candidates have about as much chance as Warren in 2020.

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Elagabalus said:
No, it isn't. Not when it was part of her own family history that was part of the family lore. Do you have any Guinness memorabilia/stories passed down from your granddad? It's kind of like that.
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My granddad was my granddad, not my great great great great (up to four more optional greats) granddad. He died in 1967, not 1796.* Although I never met him, I met his wife (my grandmother). Elizabeth Warren didn't have any lore or memorabilia from her Indian ancestor. Just some vague rumor that her mother was deemed unworthy because she was part Indian.

I'm just trying to explain why it looks so bad. A lot of people are surprised that this has been a generally negative publicity event for her. They think she was vindicated, and can't figure out why so much of the country thinks that she actually dug herself into a much deeper hole. I can't make you believe it, but I can tell you what I see, and I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one. If you are confused about why people are ridiculing her after this big announcement, and you want to understand what you are missing, consider the possibility that I might be onto something.


*I'm figuring 25 years per generation, starting at Elizabeth's birth. She's 70ish.
 
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phiwum said:
So what?

I wasn't going to vote for her because of her ancestry and I won't vote against her for it either. The only (pseudo-)issue is not who she's descended from but whether she lied about it. Evidently, she did not. At least, the evidence is consistent with her story.
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It's one thing to tell stories about hearing about someone in your family being Native American. I have no problem with that.

I only have a problem with the mental leap she must have made to check off a box on a form that said she was an aggrieved minority, in a recruitment guide.

She claims she did it to meet people of like backgrounds, however, the recruitment guide didn't list "Native American" next to her name. It simply said 'minority' at the top of the Appendix.

Harvard claims they didn't hire her because she was a minority, but after she was hired touted her as a Native American faculty. If the recruitment guide didn't list her as Native American, and she didn't tell anyone at Harvard she was Native American, then how did Harvard know to list her as a Native American faculty member?
 
Silly Green Monkey said:
There's also the possibility that if the child was placed with the NA family without a test, he or she could grow up immersed in a culture they had no biological right to.
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What?

That's the dumbest thing I've heard in a long, long time.

"Biological right to a culture" Jesus goddamn Christ...
 
Stacyhs said:
So what? I had slave owning ancestors, my grandfather was a bigamist and went to prison, and at least 2 probably killed a lot of Indians alongside Daniel Boone in Kentucky. How on earth does that reflect on who I am?

Your need to disparage Warren on things that are false reflects less on her than you.
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You're not running for presidency claiming to be an ethnic minority.
 
smartcooky said:
Wait, what? You're holding her responsible for what a distant ancestor did now? Is there no end to your crap?


ETA: Just thought I'd add this. I am a descendant of Captain James Millbank of the "Sally" and of the "Chance". He was a British Slave Trader in the 1780's.

Will you be holding me responsible for his actions?
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You're not running for presidency claiming to be an African-American because of a 1% DNA trace.
 
Drewbot said:
It's one thing to tell stories about hearing about someone in your family being Native American. I have no problem with that.

I only have a problem with the mental leap she must have made to check off a box on a form that said she was an aggrieved minority, in a recruitment guide.

She claims she did it to meet people of like backgrounds, however, the recruitment guide didn't list "Native American" next to her name. It simply said 'minority' at the top of the Appendix.

Harvard claims they didn't hire her because she was a minority, but after she was hired touted her as a Native American faculty. If the recruitment guide didn't list her as Native American, and she didn't tell anyone at Harvard she was Native American, then how did Harvard know to list her as a Native American faculty member?
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Do you have a link to this guide?
Would be interesting to see what it actually says.

I recall checking the "Native American" (might even have still read "Indian" back then) box back in high school in the early eighties, based exactly on the kind of "evidence" Mrs. Warren used when she "checked the box". It was all the rage back then. IIRC sometimes the form would have an instruction that said "check any/all that apply".
My high school made a big deal about having a student body comprised of so many different nationalities/ethnicities, and to be fair it was a tremendously diverse student body; that they chose to use the information provided uncritically was not something I concerned myself with at the time.
Like Warren, the only way I could confirm that I was not being false WRT my ancestry ,were the claim to be challenged today ,would be through some sort of DNA test.
 
acbytesla said:
This is the dumbest most ridiculous thread.

Let's actually consider this.

At worst someone can say about this issue or should I say non-issue, is that Elizabeth Warren lied on some form about her ethnic background to get ahead. And yet there is nothing that proves that she lied or she got some kind of advantage. NOTHING.

I think Warren made a mistake of even engaging this absurdity. But I didn't care before and I don't care now.

In contrast, there are recordings, both audio and video of Trump and his children lying about real estate projects in Panama, in Mexico, in Florida and in New York that caused investors to lose money and for the Trump family to pocket more than a hundred million dollars.

I know that the Trump supporters on the thread are going to say that I'm practicing whataboutism. But I don't think so. On the one hand there is no proof that Warren did ANYTHING not just illegal, but ANYTHING immoral.

In contrast, there is significant proof that Trump and his family lied for personal gain and basically stole from investors. It was not only immoral, it may have been illegal.

So you all can talk about Warren's ethnic background as if it's even slightly important.

It is not.
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What you seem to be owning up to is a blinkered view. IOW your view of Warren is based solely on the fact she is a democrat as are you and because you hate Trump. This is the 'any enemy of yours, is my friend.'

It means you are blind to the bigger ethical issue.

Of course, none of us are perfect and to err is human. However, when running for a political role - remember, these are our world leaders who lead us into war or peace - then integrity and good character are absolutely essential, whether it's being honest in your expense claims or in your self-promotion.
 
The Great Zaganza said:
If nothing else, this Warren-bashing shows that critics have nothing more serious to attack top 2020 Democratic candidates with.
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Offending the Native American community with a tone deaf political stunt "not serious."

And neither was President Hillary's lying about her server.

Oh wait...
 
Drewbot said:
It's one thing to tell stories about hearing about someone in your family being Native American. I have no problem with that.

I only have a problem with the mental leap she must have made to check off a box on a form that said she was an aggrieved minority, in a recruitment guide.

She claims she did it to meet people of like backgrounds, however, the recruitment guide didn't list "Native American" next to her name. It simply said 'minority' at the top of the Appendix.

Harvard claims they didn't hire her because she was a minority, but after she was hired touted her as a Native American faculty. If the recruitment guide didn't list her as Native American, and she didn't tell anyone at Harvard she was Native American, then how did Harvard know to list her as a Native American faculty member?
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I'm sure that at some point she told Harvard that she was Native American. Not, I think, the most modest move, but nothing that I care much about. She wasn't lying, she wasn't benefiting in any obvious manner by claiming Native American heritage on the basis of some family stories which turn out to be consistent with DNA evidence. I'd prefer that she hadn't played up minority status to the point that Harvard touted her as a woman of color, but honestly not a big deal.

There are an awful lot of politicians out there who tell baldfaced lies on nigh a daily schedule. This is not like that.
 
phiwum said:
I'm sure that at some point she told Harvard that she was Native American. Not, I think, the most modest move, but nothing that I care much about. She wasn't lying, she wasn't benefiting in any obvious manner by claiming Native American heritage on the basis of some family stories which turn out to be consistent with DNA evidence. I'd prefer that she hadn't played up minority status to the point that Harvard touted her as a woman of color, but honestly not a big deal.

There are an awful lot of politicians out there who tell baldfaced lies on nigh a daily schedule. This is not like that.
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Yeah but, using Trumpster logic, at least their lies are in the open!
 
"Well she only lied once..."

I love how having politicians that just don't... lie all is like any option we're just no longer even entertaining being put on the table.
 
JoeMorgue said:
"Well she only lied once..."

I love how having politicians that just don't... lie all is like any option we're just no longer even entertaining being put on the table.
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Well, given that finding a person who never lies is probably impossible, you expect politicians to lie, and since politics almost by definition leads to more dishonesty, this isn't surprising. But there's lies and there's lies. Trump and Warren, for instance, are not comparable in the dishonesty category.
 
Interesting article here about, 'The Blackface Party':

Senator Warren is a variation on the theme of Rachel Dolezal, a.k.a. Nkechi Amare Diallo, the sanctimonious white lady who masqueraded as a black woman for political gain (she was a person of some consequence as the NAACP president in Spokane), blonde and blue-eyed though she had been until she adopted a cosmetic strategy to appear passably black. (Doležal is Czech for “bum.” Fitting.) Like Senator Warren, she had public ambitions that weren’t entirely well served by her private reality, so she invented a new one.

A milder version of that is playing out this election year in the campaign of Robert Francis O’Rourke of Texas, who has adopted the Hispanic nickname “Beto” as part of his public political persona. O’Rourke is as Mexican American as Senator Warren is Native American and as Rachel Dolezal is black. But Hispanic names poll well in Texas, and so this smug prep-school jackass is playing a backhanded race card against Senator Ted Cruz — the man in the race who is actually Hispanic. If O’Rourke really had wanted to Spanish up the ballot, he at least could have had the honesty to run as “Pinche Gringo,” which is what he is.
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JoeMorgue said:
"Well she only lied once..."

I love how having politicians that just don't... lie all is like any option we're just no longer even entertaining being put on the table.
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I'm not at all characterizing her claims of Native American ancestry as a lie. She did, I think, exaggerate by calling herself a Native American. I'd much rather she hadn't done that.

But no, that choice does not make her unfit for elected office.

I say that as one who is not at all thrilled by Warren. She does some things I like, but she's politically far left of me. If it came down to Trump and Warren, I'd vote for her in a heartbeat. Other races would require some deliberation.
 
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