Elizabeth Warren Ancestry Thread

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Vixen said:
Warren didn't see her mother as a Native American. She herself, as 'informant', notified the authorities that her Aunt Bee was 'White'.

https://legalinsurrection.com/wp-co...-Veneck-Certificate-of-Death-partial-view.jpg

Busted.
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Sigh. Warren never claimed that her mother was a Native American...only that she had NA lineage. Do you think she thought of her aunt as Native American...or that she only had some NA lineage?

What Warren wrote on her aunt's death certificate has absolutely nothing to do with what her father's family thought many decades ago when racism against "mixed blood" was much stronger than today.

Busted. Keep digging that hole. It's thoroughly entertaining.
 
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Silly Green Monkey said:
There's also the possibility that if the child was placed with the NA family without a test, he or she could grow up immersed in a culture they had no biological right to. Kinda the opposite of an adult with NA ancestry deciding that meant they could get tribal benefits despite not being a part of the tribe's society.
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"Biological right."
 
Meadmaker said:
Back when she was ticking the boxes, this sort of DNA testing was science fiction.


I have no idea why she ticked the boxes. My guess is that Tragic Monkey hit the nail on the head. There was this story about Indian ancestry, and she thought it was cool to be Native American. I'm guessing that's all there is to it.
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I wonder if it would be political suicide to say as much now.
 
theprestige said:
Could be Pueblo.
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Well that might be if any of her 3X (or more) great grandparents went to where the Pueblo Indians lived in the Southwest US 150 or so years ago. But, if they did, why would the family lore not have said Pueblo instead of Cherokee?

It could also be an Incan if a unadmixed Incan traveled to Oklahoma in the 1850's.
 
Stacyhs said:
Well that might be if any of her 3X (or more) great grandparents went to where the Pueblo Indians lived in the Southwest US 150 or so years ago. But, if they did, why would the family lore not have said Pueblo instead of Cherokee?

It could also be an Incan if a unadmixed Incan traveled to Oklahoma in the 1850's.
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Somehow you have omitted to mention that Warren's other ancestor/relative, President Andrew Jackson, drove Native Americans off their land in 1838.

There is just no redeeming factor.
 
Vixen said:
Somehow you have omitted to mention that Warren's other ancestor/relative, President Andrew Jackson drove Native Americans off their land in 1838.

There is just no redeeming factor.
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WTF does that have to do with anything? Somehow you have omitted providing any evidence of this either. I've seen nothing that says Warren is related to Andrew Jackson. No google search turns up evidence. I'd ask for evidence, but going by your history, I'd say it would be a waste of time.

ETA: Just as I thought. There is no evidence whatsoever that Warren is related to Andrew Jackson. Once again, you've got it wrong. Quelle surprise.
 
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Stacyhs said:
WTF does that have to do with anything? Somehow you have omitted providing any evidence of this either. I've seen nothing that says Warren is related to Andrew Jackson. No google search turns up evidence. I'd ask for evidence, but going by your history, I'd say it would be a waste of time.

ETA: Just as I thought. There is no evidence whatsoever that Warren is related to Andrew Jackson. Once again, you've got it wrong. Quelle surprise.
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Sorry, my bad. However, her ancestor, Jonathan Crawford, was no better than President Jackson:

Breitbart News first reported in 2012 that Sen. Elizabeth Warren’s (D-MA) great-great-great grandfather Jonathan Crawford was a member of the Tennessee Militia that rounded up Cherokees living there at the time for the Trail of Tears journey to Oklahoma in the 1830s.

This gives Warren a 1/32, or 3.125 percent, Tennessee Militia heritage, at least double the maximum 1.56 percent, minimum 0.1 percent, Native American heritage Dr. Carlos Bustamante said the evidence in the DNA genotypes purported to come from Warrren’s DNA sample “strongly suggests” in his October 10, 2018 report released by Sen. Warren on Monday.
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Vixen said:
Sorry, my bad. However, her ancestor, Jonathan Crawford, was no better than President Jackson:
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So what?

I'm sure some of my ancestors are right bastards. I doubt that I'm related to any Native Americans, but I could be. If so, some of them might be right bastards too. No one is good just because they're Native American, after all.

So what's your point? Perhaps Warren is related to both an Indian and a right bastard who tormented Indians. How is that relevant?

I wasn't going to vote for her because of her ancestry and I won't vote against her for it either. The only (pseudo-)issue is not who she's descended from but whether she lied about it. Evidently, she did not. At least, the evidence is consistent with her story.
 
theprestige said:
I wonder if it would be political suicide to say as much now.
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I don't think it would have been last week. I think her huge, huge, mistake was making such a big deal about the ancestry, and especially saying, "See! This proves it!"

Jaw-droppingly dumb.

It's kind of sad, in a way. She has a brilliant legal mind. She has great experience. She has served as a senator. What will she be judged on that people will really remember? A stupid box on a form, and a tone deaf stunt to deal with a jackass name caller.

(That ignores her ideology, of course. If you don't like liberals, then she's bad regardless of all that. I'm just saying that these little, personal, things get so much weight, compared to anything important.)
 
phiwum said:
So what?

I'm sure some of my ancestors are right bastards. I doubt that I'm related to any Native Americans, but I could be. If so, some of them might be right bastards too. No one is good just because they're Native American, after all.
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I mentioned I'm a descendant of a confederate soldier, and I didn't mention (in this thread) that that branch of the family were long term slave owners. But meanwhile, on a different branch of the family tree, my great-great-grandfather was serving a life sentence for murder.

I must really suck.

Does my grandfather working at the Guinness factory in Dublin at least make up for some of that?

So what's your point? Perhaps Warren is related to both an Indian and a right bastard who tormented Indians. How is that relevant?

I wasn't going to vote for her because of her ancestry and I won't vote against her for it either. The only (pseudo-)issue is not who she's descended from but whether she lied about it. Evidently, she did not. At least, the evidence is consistent with her story.
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Actually, in my opinion, the question isn't whether she lied about it. I think that's what has got so many people not understanding why she looks so bad. The issue is, and always has been, that if she had any Indian blood in her at all, it wasn't much, and she was a white girl through and through, but she called herself a Native American. It's like disowning your own heritage in favor of some really tenuous connection that may or may not exist. "Look at me! I'm cool because I'm Native American." It plays into some seriously negative liberal stereotypes. Then, to make matters worse, when it is proven that any connection to Indian ancestry is very, very, weak, shouting, "See! I told you so!"
 
Vixen said:
Sorry, my bad. However, her ancestor, Jonathan Crawford, was no better than President Jackson:
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So what? I had slave owning ancestors, my grandfather was a bigamist and went to prison, and at least 2 probably killed a lot of Indians alongside Daniel Boone in Kentucky. How on earth does that reflect on who I am?

Your need to disparage Warren on things that are false reflects less on her than you.
 
Meadmaker said:
Back when she was ticking the boxes, this sort of DNA testing was science fiction.


I have no idea why she ticked the boxes. My guess is that Tragic Monkey hit the nail on the head. There was this story about Indian ancestry, and she thought it was cool to be Native American. I'm guessing that's all there is to it.
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I know why I ticked the boxes, I thought it was asking my ethnic makeup. When the forms were refined to expand on my selections with asking tribal affiliation, I realized it meant current identity and stopped ticking the boxes. If a genetic test revealed I had a small amount of NA ancestry, I wouldn't be knocking down the Cherokee doors no matter the family lore. I am not Cherokee even if I am of NA descent.
 
Vixen said:
Somehow you have omitted to mention that Warren's other ancestor/relative, President Andrew Jackson, drove Native Americans off their land in 1838.

There is just no redeeming factor.
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Wait, what? You're holding her responsible for what a distant ancestor did now? Is there no end to your crap?


ETA: Just thought I'd add this. I am a descendant of Captain James Millbank of the "Sally" and of the "Chance". He was a British Slave Trader in the 1780's.

Will you be holding me responsible for his actions?
 
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This is the dumbest most ridiculous thread.

Let's actually consider this.

At worst someone can say about this issue or should I say non-issue, is that Elizabeth Warren lied on some form about her ethnic background to get ahead. And yet there is nothing that proves that she lied or she got some kind of advantage. NOTHING.

I think Warren made a mistake of even engaging this absurdity. But I didn't care before and I don't care now.

In contrast, there are recordings, both audio and video of Trump and his children lying about real estate projects in Panama, in Mexico, in Florida and in New York that caused investors to lose money and for the Trump family to pocket more than a hundred million dollars.

I know that the Trump supporters on the thread are going to say that I'm practicing whataboutism. But I don't think so. On the one hand there is no proof that Warren did ANYTHING not just illegal, but ANYTHING immoral.

In contrast, there is significant proof that Trump and his family lied for personal gain and basically stole from investors. It was not only immoral, it may have been illegal.

So you all can talk about Warren's ethnic background as if it's even slightly important.

It is not.
 
If nothing else, this Warren-bashing shows that critics have nothing more serious to attack top 2020 Democratic candidates with.
 
Meadmaker said:
...It's like disowning your own heritage in favor of some really tenuous connection that may or may not exist. "Look at me! I'm cool because I'm Native American." It plays into some seriously negative liberal stereotypes. Then, to make matters worse, when it is proven that any connection to Indian ancestry is very, very, weak, shouting, "See! I told you so!"
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No, it isn't. Not when it was part of her own family history that was part of the family lore. Do you have any Guinness memorabilia/stories passed down from your granddad? It's kind of like that.
 
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