Trump blocks reforms in Vietnam.

[Norman Alexander]

Let me help you.

I know since it's Trump you guys...

Who might "you guys" be?

...can't help yourselves, but just as a point of information, the US...

And a number of allied countries

... got into a "big fracas" over there numerous years ago trying to physically "incentivize" the communists to stop their take over. It didn't go so well.

"I'm surprised you didn't hear about it, it was in all the papers."

Surprisingly, we did hear about it. Shock, horror.

Moreover, it's pretty absurd that any 'commie lib'...

You referring to me here? Like to rethink that description?

... would be proposing the rich, powerful democracy they completely abhor is the only one capable of actually helping the poor, weak communist one.

You mean Russia help Vietnam? Actually they did.

At least you're honest. If anyone else but Trump were prez they would have no opinion at all on the communist goings on in Vietnam considering it's been (at least in part) communist going back to the 1950s. Sorry deep thinkers, but Trump is not the impediment to their well being.

Perhaps you should try not to do my thinking and commenting for me, for a start. And I live a lot closer to Vietnam than you probably do.

Reality is that Trump cares nothing about Vietnam except as a place that he may license his hotel brand. The closest he got to it was to fly near it on the way to Singapore to meet KJU, and he was probably asleep at the time. As I said, Trump cares zilch about Vietnam as a country, whether it is capitalist, socialist, communist or a tin-pot banana republic.

Trump hates the TPP because it might stop him doing a personal hotel deal, and also because he swivel-eyed advisers told him so. Nobody has asked him to describe it, because that would reveal he has no clue what it is, how it works nor who is involved. Yes, the TPP has its faults, its supporters and critics. It deserves to be thoroughly debated and criticised, and even dissolved if so decided. But the USA is not the only party, so you don't get to decide its fate unilaterally. It's not a "deal" situation, it's a "negotiation" situation. But Trump doesn't negotiate, he blusters and threatens and waves big sticks and won't compromise. He doesn't know how to compromise. He is a dreadful negotiator, a loser.

True, Vietnam's future is up to Vietnam primarily. But it doesn't live in isolation. Vietnam interacts and trades with the rest of the world, and has a thriving tourist industry. Maybe Donny might like to visit. It's supposed to be a beautiful place...without his hotels.

 

[theprestige]

A large part of the question, “why are we talking about him so much,” is that it’s the very purpose of this venue.

That wasn't the question. The question I was asking was, "why does one feel the need to gild the lily?"

Talking about him I understand. Lying about him... I also understand, actually. But only the latter requires challenging.

 

[Polaris]

You realize (or maybe you don't) he pulled out of the TPP for literally the exact same reason you claim he should have stayed in it, except he was looking out for "ordinary workers" in the US. How obtuse of him to have policies that prefer US workers over those in Vietnam.

Which brings up the bigger issue, if all you rocket scientists on the left think communism is so awesome - and you do, don't lie - how is it possible you also believe the non-communist US needs to be the lead surgeon for all that ills the world? Why can't a communist country like Vietnam deal with its own political idiocies on its own without the US having to supply or deny something to accommodate them?! Worse, if communism is so great, why are they having problems at all? Because they're not going exactly by the book? You guys are always dying to hate something US, yet not only do you prefer the US be the one to solve all the world's problems - and in this particular case the internal issues of a communist country we've already spent a sizeable portion of our national conscience and GDP trying to stop - you get downright hostile and hateful when they don't or they don't want to.

You just want it all ways so you're never wrong? That's a mental disorder.

Trump doesn't give a **** about those people beyond how they can further enrich him.

 

[Segnosaur]

You realize (or maybe you don't) he pulled out of the TPP for literally the exact same reason you claim he should have stayed in it, except he was looking out for "ordinary workers" in the US. How obtuse of him to have policies that prefer US workers over those in Vietnam.

I think Trump's general incompetence and the policies that have been enacted by his administration show that he has little concern about the "workers".

Which brings up the bigger issue, if all you rocket scientists on the left think communism is so awesome

What makes you think people on the left think "communism is awesome"?

I suspect many (most) of the people to the left of the political spectrum have no problem with capitalism and free markets, but just want to make sure that 1) markets are regulated enough to prevent people from being scammed, and 2) there is a secure social safety net.

...how is it possible you also believe the non-communist US needs to be the lead surgeon for all that ills the world?

Well, for one the U.S. population has been told (including by a lot of republican presidents) that the U.S. is some sort of protector/guardian of democracy in the world. And it should be added that they haven't shied away from that roll, what with all the military conflicts they've been involved with.

Then there is also the "charity factor"... the idea that those who are well off should show some generosity to those who are struggling (even if those other people are in another country.)

Why can't a communist country like Vietnam deal with its own political idiocies on its own without the US having to supply or deny something to accommodate them?!

Well, for one, it would actually benefit the U.S.

By engaging in Trade with countries like Vietnam, they both open up new markets for its products, and possibly bring in cheaper imports. It also reduces reliance on China as a trading partner, and sets up Vietnam as a potential ally in the region if relations with China should sour.

Worse, if communism is so great, why are they having problems at all?

That's the point... people in Vietnam are realizing "communism doesn't work" so they are trying to introduce changes to make it less communist. The U.S. could recognize that and try to help them through trade (which would benefit both countries) but because of the incompetence of President Stubby McBonespurs, both countries will be less well off.

 

[Ziggurat]

Trump blocks reforms in Vietnam.

Your own post contradicts this claim. You said that Trump removed incentives for reform. But to block something, you have to actually do something to actively stop it, not simply refrain from encouraging it.

 

[HarryHenderson]

If you really believe all that you're an idiot -- or Steve Bannon (the two are not mutually exclusive). The United States lives in a world where other powers influence each other and us. We benefit when we influence others in ways that benefit us. We suffer when others behave in ways that hurt us, as a result of our actions or inactions. The TPP was subject to legitimate criticism from both sides of the aisle. Bernie Sanders didn't like it either. But fundamentally it united a large number of Asian states and the U.S. as a balance against Chinese power and influence. Without it those states can only grow closer to China and farther from the U.S. Not so good for anybody in the U.S., including the American worker.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive...lained-what-is-trans-pacific-partnership.html

And ask U.S. workers in the Midwest how Trump tariffs on China and China's responses have affected their livelihoods, or how Trump tariffs on steel producers have affected every U.S. business that buys steel.

It's like you took your first classes at college last week and had to let me know all that you learned. Though all that you learned is not as profound as you think. "We benefit when we influence others in ways that benefit us." Chomsky? Mongo? Is that kinda like 'we get wet when we fall into a pool of wet stuff'? But seriously, I am happy for you and your newfound adventure. Just don't forget to get good grades also.

Now to refresh your memory my argument had little to do with the TPP specifically and far more to do with the, umm, OP (Trump Blocks Reforms in Vietnam). My rebuttal was, essentially, Trump didn't have anything to do with "blocking reforms" in Vietnam. But Vietnam did. They fought a long hard war back when to maintain their own vision, independence and form of government and they won, so not only did Trump not do it, he couldn't have since Vietnam is a legitimate sovereign, independent, communist country of the world with its own government and corruption and everything. And we're not at war with them anymore.

That is, if "worker reform" is needed in Vietnam and the TPP enhanced the chances of that happening in Vietnam, then maybe Vietnam needs to take those specific provisions of the TPP that apply and use them to create new worker reform laws themselves there in Vietnam. Not wait for a capricious interna...wait, you wanted the TPP to take precedence/rule over whatever their own government had prescribed (because communism is really great until you actually marry it)? A tiny player country ($202b GDP - less than San Diego County) is somehow counting on an international trade pact with 12 other countries to do the internal reform their own hard fought government refuses to do? That's almost the laziest form of subversive there is. And it would inevitably be less than effective (i.e. all that sovereignty and crap could be a real problem). My insistence Vietnam needs to get its own **** together and solve its own problems AND THAT TRUMP ISN'T THE REASON THEY CAN'T stands.

 

[LSSBB]

Your own post contradicts this claim. You said that Trump removed incentives for reform. But to block something, you have to actually do something to actively stop it, not simply refrain from encouraging it.

Valid point.