Trump blocks reforms in Vietnam.

Bob001

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Trump's withdrawal from the Trans-Pacific Partnership has eliminated incentives for the Vietnamese government to improve social and political conditions.
Freed from conditions imposed by the Obama administration to join the trade pact, Vietnam’s Communist government has scrapped plans to allow independent trade unions and unleashed its most severe clampdown on dissent in decades. Authorities have arrested scores of social activists, bloggers and democracy advocates, sentencing many to jail terms of 10 to 20 years.
....
“As soon as America withdrew from the TPP, you saw a radical change in the way [the Vietnamese] government treated workers, labor activists and unions,” said Do Thi Minh Hanh, a 33-year-old labor activist, speaking in a cafe in Ho Chi Minh City. “A lot of people have been harassed, followed, imprisoned and threatened.”
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https://www.washingtonpost.com/grap...tback-for-democracy-in-vietnam/?noredirect=on

Trump wrecks lives everywhere he turns.
 
Donny doesn't give a flying ****. He has no idea where Vietnam is or even how to spell it. Unless there's something in it for him personally.

Edited by Agatha: 
Do not evade the autocensor; in the public sections (of which Politics is one) please spell out all swear words correctly, without replacing characters or spoonerisms.
 
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Norman Alexander said:
Donny doesn't give a flying ****. He has no idea where Vietnam is or even how to spell it. Unless there's something in it for him personally.
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He knows that if he can find a doctor to say he has bone spurs, he doesn't have to go there.

Edited by Agatha: 
Edited to match moderation on quoted post.
 
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As much as I dislike trump, improvement of Vietnam's social and political conditions are on Vietnam.
 
Bob001 said:
Trump's withdrawal from the Trans-Pacific Partnership has eliminated incentives for the Vietnamese government to improve social and political conditions.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/grap...tback-for-democracy-in-vietnam/?noredirect=on

Trump wrecks lives everywhere he turns.
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Norman Alexander said:
Donny doesn't give a flying ****. He has no idea where Vietnam is or even how to spell it. Unless there's something in it for him personally.
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I know since it's Trump you guys can't help yourselves, but just as a point of information, the US got into a "big fracas" over there numerous years ago trying to physically "incentivize" the communists to stop their take over. It didn't go so well.

"I'm surprised you didn't hear about it, it was in all the papers."

Moreover, it's pretty absurd that any 'commie lib' would be proposing the rich, powerful democracy they completely abhor is the only one capable of actually helping the poor, weak communist one.

citizenzen said:
As much as I dislike trump, improvement of Vietnam's social and political conditions are on Vietnam.
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At least you're honest. If anyone else but Trump were prez they would have no opinion at all on the communist goings on in Vietnam considering it's been (at least in part) communist going back to the 1950s. Sorry deep thinkers, but Trump is not the impediment to their well being. :eye-poppi
 
HarryHenderson said:
... At least you're honest. If anyone else but Trump were prez they would have no opinion at all on the communist goings on in Vietnam considering it's been (at least in part) communist going back to the 1950s. Sorry deep thinkers, but Trump is not the impediment to their well being. :eye-poppi
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I do find some wiggle room in the OP’s use of the word, “incentives,” as I do believe in incentivizing reform and promoting freedom as a goal for all countries and people to enjoy. But one shouldn’t be overly optimistic about how much or how quickly incentives will spur change. One thing we should do is conduct ourselves in ways demonstrating that we value and uphold those principles and how they can lead to prosperity.

Beyond that, aside from atrocities, give nations the space and time to work it out. Throw a bone or two if you see a good opportunity, patiently wait for progress to transpire, and don’t let a few backsteps rattle you.
 
citizenzen said:
We don’t need to blame him for faults he did not commit.

His faults are enough on their own.

One does not need to gild that lily.
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If there's one thing we've learned in the past two years, it's that one does, in fact, need to gild the lily.

One Trump Hate thread is not enough. There needs to be two. Three. Four.

Half a dozen Trump hate threads, and one still feels the need to shout down any long-running thread about a politician other than Trump.

One needs to shoe horn Trump into any and every thread. The real news is not enough; one needs to gin up fake news as well.

It's not what you might expect, and it doesn't make sense, but the matter is clear: For some strange reason, one does need to gild the lily.

Instead of denying this truth, we should seek to understand its cause, and its cure.
 
theprestige said:
If there's one thing we've learned in the past two years, it's that one does, in fact, need to gild the lily.

One Trump Hate thread is not enough. There needs to be two. Three. Four.

Half a dozen Trump hate threads, and one still feels the need to shout down any long-running thread about a politician other than Trump.

One needs to shoe horn Trump into any and every thread. The real news is not enough; one needs to gin up fake news as well.

It's not what you might expect, and it doesn't make sense, but the matter is clear: For some strange reason, one does need to gild the lily.

Instead of denying this truth, we should seek to understand its cause, and its cure.
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Is it really that hard to understand?

We elected the stupidest, most crass, corrupt, and insanely impulsive person to our highest office.

And 40% of the people think that’s just great.

Sounds like something to talk about to me.
 
citizenzen said:
Is it really that hard to understand?

We elected the stupidest, most crass, corrupt, and insanely impulsive person to our highest office.

And 40% of the people think that’s just great.

Sounds like something to talk about to me.
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Even when it isn't something to talk about? You're the one who complained about gilding the lily, after all.
 
citizenzen said:
Is it really that hard to understand?

We elected the stupidest, most crass, corrupt, and insanely impulsive person to our highest office.

And 40% of the people think that’s just great.

Sounds like something to talk about to me.
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:rolleyes::i:
 
The left in the U.S. and their fake news went through a tremendous effort to make Vietnam a communist country. Now that they got what they wanted, they are complaining -- of all things -- that Vietnam is acting like a communist country. That isn't logical -- you get what you want, then complain about it. South Korea is not acting like a communist country. That is because it is a free country. There is a reason for it because we achieved our objectives there using pure brute force "toxic masculinity" by some of the bravest fighting men who ever walked the earth. We were actually in the deep kind of military trouble in Korea on two occasions (Pusan and Chosin) like the left lied about and said we were in Vietnam, after we won the Tet Offensive, pushed The Front out of Hue, and had destroyed the Viet Cong. At that time, the war was almost won. In Korea, we fought our way out of Chosin and managed to take 90,000 North Korean refugees with us to the safety of South Korea, negotiate an armistice, and create a free country out of an area that had been a Japanese colony for a very long time.
 
BrooklynBaby said:
The left in the U.S. and their fake news went through a tremendous effort to make Vietnam a communist country. Now that they got what they wanted, they are complaining -- of all things -- that Vietnam is acting like a communist country. That isn't logical -- you get what you want, then complain about it.
.....
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A rant from the '60s about "evil commies" contributes nothing to the discussion. The Vietnam war ended in 1975. The U.S. and Vietnam re-established full diplomatic relations in 1995. Vietnam is a peaceful member of the global community, and it freely entered into an agreement with its neighbors and the U.S. that would have enhanced the lives of ordinary workers. International agreements and treaties are how we influence other countries. Trump ended the TPP for no good reason, against the advice of numerous diplomats and economists.

And there's this:
Despite the infamous history of the Vietnam War, Vietnam today is one of the most pro-American countries in Southeast Asia and the world,[3][4][5] with 84% of Vietnamese people viewing the U.S. favorably in 2017.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States–Vietnam_relations
 
Bob001 said:
A rant from the '60s about "evil commies" contributes nothing to the discussion. The Vietnam war ended in 1975. The U.S. and Vietnam re-established full diplomatic relations in 1995. Vietnam is a peaceful member of the global community, and it freely entered into an agreement with its neighbors and the U.S. that would have enhanced the lives of ordinary workers. International agreements and treaties are how we influence other countries. Trump ended the TPP for no good reason, against the advice of numerous diplomats and economists.

And there's this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States–Vietnam_relations
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You realize (or maybe you don't) he pulled out of the TPP for literally the exact same reason you claim he should have stayed in it, except he was looking out for "ordinary workers" in the US. How obtuse of him to have policies that prefer US workers over those in Vietnam.

Which brings up the bigger issue, if all you rocket scientists on the left think communism is so awesome - and you do, don't lie - how is it possible you also believe the non-communist US needs to be the lead surgeon for all that ills the world? Why can't a communist country like Vietnam deal with its own political idiocies on its own without the US having to supply or deny something to accommodate them?! Worse, if communism is so great, why are they having problems at all? Because they're not going exactly by the book? You guys are always dying to hate something US, yet not only do you prefer the US be the one to solve all the world's problems - and in this particular case the internal issues of a communist country we've already spent a sizeable portion of our national conscience and GDP trying to stop - you get downright hostile and hateful when they don't or they don't want to.

You just want it all ways so you're never wrong? That's a mental disorder. :boggled:
 
theprestige said:
Even when it isn't something to talk about? You're the one who complained about gilding the lily, after all.
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Well, you do have to take into account that you’re lodging this complaint in a political forum.

A large part of the question, “why are we talking about him so much,” is that it’s the very purpose of this venue.

That, and he does a lot to stir up conversation.
 
HarryHenderson said:
You realize (or maybe you don't) he pulled out of the TPP for literally the exact same reason you claim he should have stayed in it, except he was looking out for "ordinary workers" in the US. How obtuse of him to have policies that prefer US workers over those in Vietnam.

Which brings up the bigger issue, if all you rocket scientists on the left think communism is so awesome - and you do, don't lie - how is it possible you also believe the non-communist US needs to be the lead surgeon for all that ills the world? Why can't a communist country like Vietnam deal with its own political idiocies on its own without the US having to supply or deny something to accommodate them?! Worse, if communism is so great, why are they having problems at all? Because they're not going exactly by the book? You guys are always dying to hate something US, yet not only do you prefer the US be the one to solve all the world's problems - and in this particular case the internal issues of a communist country we've already spent a sizeable portion of our national conscience and GDP trying to stop - you get downright hostile and hateful when they don't or they don't want to.

You just want it all ways so you're never wrong? That's a mental disorder. :boggled:
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If you really believe all that you're an idiot -- or Steve Bannon (the two are not mutually exclusive). The United States lives in a world where other powers influence each other and us. We benefit when we influence others in ways that benefit us. We suffer when others behave in ways that hurt us, as a result of our actions or inactions. The TPP was subject to legitimate criticism from both sides of the aisle. Bernie Sanders didn't like it either. But fundamentally it united a large number of Asian states and the U.S. as a balance against Chinese power and influence. Without it those states can only grow closer to China and farther from the U.S. Not so good for anybody in the U.S., including the American worker.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive...lained-what-is-trans-pacific-partnership.html

And ask U.S. workers in the Midwest how Trump tariffs on China and China's responses have affected their livelihoods, or how Trump tariffs on steel producers have affected every U.S. business that buys steel.
 
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