New SCOTUS Judge II: The Wrath of Kavanaugh

[Meadmaker]

Since you brought it up:

https://www.businessinsider.com/yal...ents-kavanaugh-hires-attractive-clerks-2018-9

Yeah, I know. That's why I brought it up.


There's some dispute about what Chua actually said, but then again, there's lots of disputes about what nearly everyone said. Several people backed up the story about Chua.

 

[luchog]

Great examples. If Bill Gates and Oprah can become a billionaire, why can't others do the same? (they do) Maybe not as often as people would like to become billionaires, but those that take the right actions, and have the right reactions sometimes get to that type of status in life. Those two both worked their asses off to get their success. Both have also been very generous with funds to help others after their success.

Yeah, Bill Gates' success had nothing to do with having access to Daddy's money.

 

[River]

And that's not even getting into the problems of disabilities, something that many, many Americans have to deal with.

Judging by his posts and demonstrated lack of compassion, I'm going to categorically assume that River has never had to deal with a serious disability of any sort.

Meanwhile, some of us have to work very, very hard just to do the sorts of things non-disabled people take for granted. I'm very grateful that public assistance and other social safety nets exist, because without them I would not be alive today. My family certainly didn't do jack **** to help me with my disabilities (that would have meant admitting that they actually existed and weren't going to be magically cured by their god).

Hell, the fact that he even had a mother who worked to support him and give him a good start in life is another example of a privilege that not all of us get.

I do not have any sort of categorical physical disabilities. (though i do have crohn's disease) I do very much value our policies concerning people that aren't fully able to care for themselves or find themselves to be disabled at some point in their life. I've been helped greatly by a man that is blind, and his wife is also legally blind but she can see very basic shapes. They have a child that can see. I'm not one to discount anyone based on a disability. My life was forever changed by this gentleman as a kid. I still talk to him today.

 

[dmaker]

However, most people, I think are ok with some abortions.
.

I don't share that belief. I've crossed paths with quite a few of the "life begins at conception" crowd in my time.

 

[luchog]

Since you brought it up:

https://www.businessinsider.com/yal...ents-kavanaugh-hires-attractive-clerks-2018-9

Called it.

 

[dmaker]

I can't reconcile dmaker's two comments here. In the first, he says banning abortion would cross the separation of church and state line. In the second, he says that it's ok to ban abortion, at least under some circumstances.
.

Sorry for the incongruous statements. I was going for brevity, not confusion. I believe that early term abortions should be allowed for any reason. Late term should be generally discouraged barring extenuating circumstances like you mentioned. Where do I draw the line? I don't know. I am not lead in this case by a religious or medical compass. I simply go with what seems decent and humane. If a fetus could survive with medical assistance outside the womb, then I don't think that pregnancy should be aborted.

Does that cover all situations? Hardly. I am sure there are many scenarios that I haven't even thought of. I try to defer the womans choice.

 

[luchog]

I do not have any sort of categorical physical disabilities. (though i do have crohn's disease) I do very much value our policies concerning people that aren't fully able to care for themselves or find themselves to be disabled at some point in their life. I've been helped greatly by a man that is blind, and his wife is also legally blind but she can see very basic shapes. They have a child that can see. I'm not one to discount anyone based on a disability. My life was forever changed by this gentleman as a kid. I still talk to him today.

No, you weren't, you did it all on your own, you said so yourself, it was all through your own hard work.

So, is this a roundabout admission that you were wrong about people only needing to work hard, and that circumstances have nothing to do with success?

 

[acbytesla]

Yeah, Bill Gates' success had nothing to do with having access to Daddy's money.

Yeah, unlike Kavanaugh Bill never benefited from that privileged private high school education. Ooops, maybe he did. Annual tuition at Lakeside school where Bill Gates and Paul Allen, not to mention Craig McCaw as well as the original Batman Adam West is only $35,000 per year.

 

[LSSBB]

I do not have any sort of categorical physical disabilities. (though i do have crohn's disease) I do very much value our policies concerning people that aren't fully able to care for themselves or find themselves to be disabled at some point in their life. I've been helped greatly by a man that is blind, and his wife is also legally blind but she can see very basic shapes. They have a child that can see. I'm not one to discount anyone based on a disability. My life was forever changed by this gentleman as a kid. I still talk to him today.

Lucky you, for knowing that guy.

 

[Bob001]

It still won't impeach Kav.

Also my bold. Interesting that is what you would want to do. (instead of advancing democratic agendas)

Stopping the Trump crowd is the first step toward advancing Democratic agendas. Moderate Republicans would join "Democratic" agendas on tax reform, financial regulation, climate change, judicial appointments etc. if they weren't scared to death of being primaried by Trump cultists.

 

[Minoosh]

Which brings me to the real point, which is at the heart of this thread, and the debate generally about the Supreme Court. When it comes to making those sorts of judgment calls, it does indeed seem to me like what is being done is a legislative function.

The Supreme Court is a form of majority rule. It's like a mini-Legislature. Justices learn how to couch their decisions in non-legislative terms, citing precedent and the Constitution. Legislators can vote their gut or simply vote for the position that enriches them the most. Technically, this is a no-no for justices. But it's a similar process. They take a vote, find rational ways to explain their gut reactions and voila, legislating from the bench.

The life terms and other factors are supposed to make them impervious to public opinion, but they're just people.

Should abortion be banned after a certain number of days? After a medical exam has been performed that showed a certain degree of development? Any time after attachment to the uterus? Any time a woman cares to do it and the fetus is still dependent on her for survival? Any time a woman cares to do it, and a fetus could possibly survive with the aid of medical technology? ...

These all seem very much like laws to me, rather than constitutional issues, which would place them in the legislative domain, rather than the judicial.

Not meaning to cut you short, just having got the gist of it: Why "should" these be in the legislative domain? How about the domain of science, best practice or erring on the side of personal liberty? Simply allow women to make a decision with their health-care provider. No one's chasing them down and sucking out the contents of their uterus. Uteri.

Justices supported segregation in 1890s and struck it down in the 1950s. They said separate but equal was fine, until they didn't. It all boiled down to legally defensible opinion and a majority on the court.

In my opinion, far too many people look at the effect of a judicial ruling in terms of its practical consequences. I would prefer Supreme Court justices who looked first to the legal principles and only looked to the practical effects if it was necessary in order to determine whether a certain constitutional line had been breached.

The justices cite legal principles. They don't necessarily "look first" to them.

 

[River]

No, you weren't, you did it all on your own, you said so yourself, it was all through your own hard work.

So, is this a roundabout admission that you were wrong about people only needing to work hard, and that circumstances have nothing to do with success?

He taught me to play guitar by ear. I also studied music theory and learned how to read and eventually teach guitar after that.

I did everything from roofing, to framing houses, to cleaning gutters, digging trenches, saline torch cutting metal and welding, jack hammering cement to pay the bills. Meanwhile I was performing and recording with some decent acts/artists after a few years. I've also taught youngsters to play guitar to return the favor i was given. I still do when I see someone showing a real interest.

 

[River]

Lucky you, for knowing that guy.

He's a great guy. Funniest name ever. You won't even believe me if I told you.

His name is Dick Cannon.

 

[Minoosh]

Yeah, unlike Kavanaugh Bill never benefited from that privileged private high school education. Ooops, maybe he did. Annual tuition at Lakeside school where Bill Gates and Paul Allen, not to mention Craig McCaw as well as the original Batman Adam West is only $35,000 per year.

The logical way to determine the appropriate level of social safety net is to look at one person's experience, then calibrate everything based on that one person's experience.

I love original Batman BTW. We took it dead serious as kids, then I watched a clip as an adult and realized it was pure camp.

 

[LSSBB]

He's a great guy. Funniest name ever. You won't even believe me if I told you.

His name is Dick Cannon.

So who you know and who you encounter do affect you. Some folks may not have such beneficial encounters. They may have more encounters with violent types, or thieves. They may have spouses or relatives with severe medical issues, or who are drug and alcohol addicted. It's a crapshoot out there. If you come out ahead from a bad neighborhood: congratulations, you are officially a statistical outlier.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

deleted

I had something to say but realized if we get into an abortion discussion the thread will be too far off topic.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Evasiveness is, I believe, indicative. Evasiveness isn't an emotion.

Yeah, Brett Kavanaugh was extremely evasive on the subject of just how drunk he got in his youth, and that leads me to believe that he got pretty darned drunk.

What I mean is that in the absence of evidence, we can't reach any conclusion at all. We shouldn't decide which one is telling the truth based on whether or not we like the cut of their jib.

As for who did that, there were lots of media stories that made it quite explicit, but, really, that was the entire narrative after the hearings. "She sounded credible." "She was 100% certain." "She was sincere." "He was angry." "He was disrespectful". All those things appeared true, but what does it tell us? Nothing. Of course, both sides played that game. Senator Kennedy actually asked Kavanaugh to swear to God. Well, he must be telling the truth, then, because lightning would have struck the hearing room if he had been lying, right? But I think they missed a big opportunity to weigh each witness to see if they weighed the same as a duck. That would have had more probative value than judging their sincerity or likability.

Judge the evidence. That includes their testimony, but only in the sense that we can compare what they say happened with evidence from other sources to see if there's consistency. Their apparent sincerity is utterly insignificant, but it was what was reported above all else.

Remind me, is there a post of yours that discussed lying under oath in his confirmation hearing?

 

[River]

So who you know and who you encounter do affect you. Some folks may not have such beneficial encounters. They may have more encounters with violent types, or thieves. They may have spouses or relatives with severe medical issues, or who are drug and alcohol addicted. It's a crapshoot out there. If you come out ahead from a bad neighborhood: congratulations, you are officially a statistical outlier.

Which may explain how stubborn I am.

I try to give back and help those that can't afford to record in my studio now also. For example I recorded three songs for an artist that didn't have any money up front. I produced the recordings and played all the backing instruments and lead guitar. A buddy of mine played drums on the tracks for me, and we had the artist do their vocal and rhythm guitar tracks. One of the songs got picked up in a made for cable movie in shark week. First recording he ever made. I thought that was pretty cool.

 

[Minoosh]

I would prefer Supreme Court justices who looked first to the legal principles and only looked to the practical effects if it was necessary in order to determine whether a certain constitutional line had been breached.

I don't mean to pick you to death. But why do you prefer that? Legal principles when it was legal to own slaves dictated that you had a right to hunt down your property, take it home and punish it any way you wanted to. After a while, that became unacceptable. Legal principles are built on societal norms. I don't think they exist in some Platonic vacuum. Public opinion has a lot to do with what justices decide, as do practical effects. They're just not supposed to admit it.

 

[acbytesla]

The logical way to determine the appropriate level of social safety net is to look at one person's experience, then calibrate everything based on that one person's experience.

I love original Batman BTW. We took it dead serious as kids, then I watched a clip as an adult and realized it was pure camp.

I'm a big fan of John Rawls. If you have never read his magnum opus, The Theory of Justice, you should. The most important thing he wrote in the book was the thought experiment The Original Position. The point was to design as fair of society you could not knowing if you you were powerful or powerless or behind a 'veil of ignornance'.

About Batman the TV series:
Oh, it was total camp. Caesar Romero as the Joker, Burgess Meredith as the Penguin, Frank Gorshen as the Riddler and the campiest dialogue imaginable. I loved it as a kid. But I doubt we took it seriously. It was like a non-animated catoon.