New SCOTUS Judge II: The Wrath of Kavanaugh

[theprestige]

He should bother for the reasons that he says he chose women as clerks. He wants to encourage women in the law profession.

If he values that, then what should it matter that some guy on the internet is complaining? If he thinks that women should be encouraged in this way, then it would be ridiculous to stop the practice because someone somewhere was skeptical about Kavanaugh's reasons.

Thanks. I was actually interested in smartcooky's explanation, though. And there's a larger question about partisan compromise, here.

Most issues aren't really binary - even on principle. It's usually possible to make a compromise of some kind. But a compromise only makes sense if there's some actual quid pro quo.

 

[River]

Who is saying it's nearly impossible? There are always some, such as Oprah, who make it despite tough circumstances. However, there are also those who work hard and are determined, and still suffer setback after setback. And there are always those who have a long way to climb, and meet those setbacks well before they would be in a position to deal with them. Life is a bayesian nightmare. Face it, you found opportunities and were able to take advantage of them. Bill Gates found better opportunities... does he work harder than you?

Great examples. If Bill Gates and Oprah can become a billionaire, why can't others do the same? (they do) Maybe not as often as people would like to become billionaires, but those that take the right actions, and have the right reactions sometimes get to that type of status in life. Those two both worked their asses off to get their success. Both have also been very generous with funds to help others after their success.

When folks start using race or ethnicity as the determining factor is where you lose me. Economic and social inequalities exist for all races, and both sexes. None of these things determine outcome. More so opportunity.(meaning social and economic status effects opportunity more than outcome) One can come from basically nothing and have the same outcome. There is always a reason to quit, and it's easy. The hard part is never quitting.

Anyhow, this is wayyy off topic here. We should stop hijacking the thread with this.

Are democrats still talking impeachment for Kavanaugh? They will never get 2/3 Senate to confirm.

 

[phiwum]

Thanks. I was actually interested in smartcooky's explanation, though. And there's a larger question about partisan compromise, here.

Most issues aren't really binary - even on principle. It's usually possible to make a compromise of some kind. But a compromise only makes sense if there's some actual quid pro quo.

Sorry, did you think smartcooky was in a position to compromise with Kavanaugh?

I imagine the eight folks in that position will treat him respectfully, regardless of political leanings.

For myself, I see nothing wrong with Kavanaugh's choice, but it's a little funny to hear those on the right acting so thrilled with diversity in hiring. But, hell, why not. Republicans are now opposed to free trade. They can pick up affirmative action, I guess.

 

[acbytesla]

What some call luck, others call hard work and determination. Tenacity. Not everyone possesses that, which is exactly the point. It's easier for someone born into money sure, but it's not impossible to come out of a poor area into something better. Some of the posters here would have you believe its nearly impossible. Sure some of my life has been hard due to circumstances beyond my control. Everyones is.

The entire point is, those that want to and try to, can succeed in this country at bettering themselves and their situations.

Where did you get that determination and tenacity? Do you honestly think that others didn't work hard to get out? Do you honestly think you did it alone and no one helped you? If you do, I'm loudly calling bull crap.

As one who put himself through college, I understand the hard work. But I am the only one of 9 children that got a college degree. I don't delude myself into thinking that good fortune and the help of others like an elderly woman, practically a stranger who paid for my books one quarter had nothing to do with my limited success.

Also, how was I blessed to be able to do the schoolwork and my hard working younger brother couldn't?

There is no substitute for hard work and determination. But it doesn't live in a vacuum. Bad circumstances can easily demolish the best of spirits and raise the boat of the least.

 

[JoeMorgue]

I think it's because our culture loves both "Rags to Riches" and "Hard Work" stories so they try to fit every person's life narrative into one of those when in reality it's a complicated web of effort and chance.

 

[River]

Where did you get that determination and tenacity? Do you honestly think that others didn't work hard to get out? Do you honestly think you did it alone and no one helped you? If you do, I'm loudly calling bull crap.

As one who put himself through college, I understand the hard work. But I am the only one of 9 children that got a college degree. I don't delude myself into thinking that good fortune and the help of others like an elderly woman, practically a stranger who paid for my books one quarter had nothing to do with my limited success.

Also, how was I blessed to be able to do the schoolwork and my hard working younger brother couldn't?

There is no substitute for hard work and determination. But it doesn't live in a vacuum. Bad circumstances can easily demolish the best of spirits and raise the boat of the least.

Plenty of others do. I have several friends that have a similar story to mine minus the kids. (came from poor backgrounds, to have a much better adult life)

The point isnt that I'm this super person, greater than most. The point is -- I'm not at all. I'm a normal person that had to bust ass to get anywhere. Others do this every single day. It does not require special education, or other traits than putting in the effort and not quitting. Not everyone is going to do a good job (at whatever their job is) Just like not everyone is going to achieve BG or Oprah status. This might be for many reasons unrelated to effort, or tenacity. However, you can change effort and tenacity. You cannot change some of the things that might otherwise effect some job performance. (physical or health issues for instance)

 

[Bob001]

.....
Are democrats still talking impeachment for Kavanaugh? They will never get 2/3 Senate to confirm.

Impeachment -- of Kav, Trump or anybody else -- doesn't have to lead to removal. If the Democrats take control of the House, they can conduct extensive investigations, subpoena witnesses (including all the people the FBI didn't talk to), etc. How long did the Repubs drag out Benghazi? The House can obtain and release Trump's tax returns and compel testimony from anybody who has ever dealt with him. Just as the Repubs weakened Bill Clinton in 1998 without removing him, a Democratic House can do a lot of damage to the Trump crowd.

 

[River]

Impeachment -- of Kav, Trump or anybody else -- doesn't have to lead to removal. If the Democrats take control of the House, they can conduct extensive investigations, subpoena witnesses (including all the people the FBI didn't talk to), etc. How long did the Repubs drag out Benghazi? The House can obtain and release Trump's tax returns and compel testimony from anybody who has ever dealt with him. Just as the Repubs weakened Bill Clinton in 1998 without removing him, a Democratic House can do a lot of damage to the Trump crowd.

It still won't impeach Kav.

Also my bold. Interesting that is what you would want to do. (instead of advancing democratic agendas)

 

[baron]

The entire point is, those that want to and try to, can succeed in this country at bettering themselves and their situations.

This one too...

Armed with only a winning smile and a prepared speech, he simply knocked on the doors of the capital’s wealthiest residents and asked for advice....

...He told anyone who answered: ‘I just wanted to know what skills and qualities you had that allowed you to live in a wealthy area like this so I can extrapolate that and use it for myself.’...

...he plan worked and Mr Nelson, 22, is now a well-paid analyst with Legal & General Investment Management.

No excuses.

 

[Minoosh]

I want to puke when i hear that bull crap that people spout when they said they did it on their own.

Hell, even Kavanaugh did it when he said he got into Yale on his own.

Do you remember Craig T. Smith that when he was on food stamps, nobody helped him?

Going to a good elementary school is *huge* when it comes to later success.

Ayn Rand claimed no one helped her when she came to the U.S. - which was untrue, according to a biography.

It's telling that even with advantages and, I'm sure, hard work, Kavanaugh ended up virtually insolvent. Someone recently paid off his debts. Unsurprisingly, his explanation is different than the White House explanation.

 

[River]

This one too...



No excuses.

Seems like a fine young man, very determined. I wish him continued success.

 

[Meadmaker]

I don't see any secular reason why abortion should be banned. This makes me angry because I hate when self righteous hypocrites try to ram their religion down my throat.

How does any argument to ban abortion not cross the separation of church and state line?

Is abortion actually banned in the bible, is it even mentioned? I'm atheist and I'm pro-choice up to a point, but I don't think abortions in the 3rd trimester should be allowed barring health risks to the mother or if the fetus is just going to live a short painful life after birth. Someone else could decide its wrong in the 2nd trimester for completely non-religious reasons.

Same here.

I can't reconcile dmaker's two comments here. In the first, he says banning abortion would cross the separation of church and state line. In the second, he says that it's ok to ban abortion, at least under some circumstances.


I suspect that most people would agree that early term abortions should be allowed, while later term abortions should not. Some people would say that absolutely no abortions should be allowed, ever, and a very, very, small number of people say that abortions should be allowed right up until the onset of labor. (I've never heard anyone say that abortion should be allowed during labor.) However, most people, I think are ok with some abortions. It's just a matter of trying to figure out where to draw the line.

I don't have an easy answer for that, myself. I suppose I would say that no potentially viable fetus should be aborted, but I wouldn't no how to translate that into legislation.

Which brings me to the real point, which is at the heart of this thread, and the debate generally about the Supreme Court. When it comes to making those sorts of judgment calls, it does indeed seem to me like what is being done is a legislative function. Should abortion be banned after a certain number of days? After a medical exam has been performed that showed a certain degree of development? Any time after attachment to the uterus? Any time a woman cares to do it and the fetus is still dependent on her for survival? Any time a woman cares to do it, and a fetus could possibly survive with the aid of medical technology?


And what of who can decide to have one under what circumstances? Minors? Minors with parents' permissions? Anyone, but only after ensuring that the person is making an informed choice, which has to be confirmed by some sort of educational process or signed statement of understanding?


These all seem very much like laws to me, rather than constitutional issues, which would place them in the legislative domain, rather than the judicial.


In my opinion, far too many people look at the effect of a judicial ruling in terms of its practical consequences. I would prefer Supreme Court justices who looked first to the legal principles and only looked to the practical effects if it was necessary in order to determine whether a certain constitutional line had been breached.

 

[acbytesla]

Plenty of others do. I have several friends that have a similar story to mine minus the kids. (came from poor backgrounds, to have a much better adult life)

The point isnt that I'm this super person, greater than most. The point is -- I'm not at all. I'm a normal person that had to bust ass to get anywhere. Others do this every single day. It does not require special education, or other traits than putting in the effort and not quitting. Not everyone is going to do a good job (at whatever their job is) Just like not everyone is going to achieve BG or Oprah status. This might be for many reasons unrelated to effort, or tenacity. However, you can change effort and tenacity. You cannot change some of the things that might otherwise effect some job performance. (physical or health issues for instance)

Sure they do. I know our stories are not unique. But I KNOW for a fact that they are the exception and ABSOLUTELY not the rule. I have 7 other siblings that still are a few paychecks away from disaster. I ask myself, why not me? I look back at my past and see it could have easily gone the other way.

I also see that you never addressed my point on your position about subsidized contraception and how short sighted it was. That if you have any interest in alleviating suffering not to mention abortions and misery, why wouldn't you support it?

 

[acbytesla]

Do you remember Craig T. Smith that when he was on food stamps, nobody helped him?

Going to a good elementary school is *huge* when it comes to later success.

Ayn Rand claimed no one helped her when she came to the U.S. - which was untrue, according to a biography.

It's telling that even with advantages and, I'm sure, hard work, Kavanaugh ended up virtually insolvent. Someone recently paid off his debts. Unsurprisingly, his explanation is different than the White House explanation.

 

[Meadmaker]

In Kavanaugh news, theres this.

Brett Kavanaugh just hired the Supreme Court's first all-women law clerk team

Are they hot?


(Just joking. In all seriousness, there's no way for Kavanaugh to win in the short term. He hires women, people will try to disparage his motives, or say that he's just making up for other bad behavior. If he doesn't they'll take it as confirmation that he's sexist. In the long run, though, it's much easier for him to win. Judge him on his work, after he's had a term or two for a track record.)

 

[Meadmaker]

"An important precedent of the Supreme Court that has been reaffirmed many times" is not a promise to not overturn it. It's a simple factual statement. Of course Roe v. Wade is an important precedent. It's repeal or gutting would be too.



Er, yes, because in that position, he had no power to overturn Roe v. Wade. What he said in 2006 isn't too relevant now that he's on the highest court in the land.

I am not saying he'll be part of an effort to overturn Roe. I can't see the future. But you were wrong when you said he stated he would not do so.

It was answers like this that made me think he would support overturning Roe v. Wade. He gave very precise answers that might look like he was saying he wouldn't, but in reality those answers gave no actual indication of a direction. I think he was avoiding that. In that way, he shares ground with all of the current sitting justices. The last nominee who actually said anything about his position on actual cases was Robert Bork, and it didn't work out well for him.

 

[Minoosh]

1863 Democrats: without slaves, who will pick our crops?
2018 Democrats: without illegal aliens who will pick our crops?

Ignorant and/or dishonest. "Democrats" during the Civil War meant something completely different than it does today. And today's Republicans are blocking mandatory implementation of the E-Verify program. A Republican majority in the House could not pass this reform due to resistance from farm states.

The common denominator is not "Democrats," it's "agricultural interests."

 

[luchog]

Because people's circumstances are not always the same. Because the decisions some people have to make in life not always viable options for others of others - everyone is NOT the same; we're not all 5' 8', white, blue eyed humans cast from the same mould, born into the same circumstances, with all the same rights and privileges.

And that's not even getting into the problems of disabilities, something that many, many Americans have to deal with.

Judging by his posts and demonstrated lack of compassion, I'm going to categorically assume that River has never had to deal with a serious disability of any sort.

Meanwhile, some of us have to work very, very hard just to do the sorts of things non-disabled people take for granted. I'm very grateful that public assistance and other social safety nets exist, because without them I would not be alive today. My family certainly didn't do jack **** to help me with my disabilities (that would have meant admitting that they actually existed and weren't going to be magically cured by their god).

Hell, the fact that he even had a mother who worked to support him and give him a good start in life is another example of a privilege that not all of us get.

 

[Bob001]

Are they hot?
....

Since you brought it up:

A Yale law professor reportedly advised female students on their appearances to bolster their chances of being hired by Supreme Court nominee Judge Brett Kavanaugh as law clerks.

Amy Chua last year privately told a group of law students it's "not an accident" his clerks often "looked like models," The Guardian reported Thursday.

https://www.businessinsider.com/yal...ents-kavanaugh-hires-attractive-clerks-2018-9

 

[luchog]

Sorry to hear about your wife.

My attitude may be different than some because I lived it. If you have the will and tenacity, you will succeed in bettering yourself. No matter where your beginnings, the end is up to you.

Yeah, all those lazy slacker autistic, bi-polar, epileptic, cerebral palsy, quadraplegic, and so on people don't need any sort of government support, all they need is to get off their crippled asses and work harder and everything will be rainbows and fluffy pink unicorns.

Plenty of others do. I have several friends that have a similar story to mine minus the kids. (came from poor backgrounds, to have a much better adult life)

And I have two friends who are the hardest damned workers I have ever known, who are on the edge of homelessness right now and having to beg for help paying rent, because the cost and difficulty of caring for their autistic son is too high for them to manage on their own. I have one very hard-working friend who is effectively homeless (living rent-free with me) despite working two jobs, because the cost of his diabetes medication and insulin, combined with the cost of his bi-polar medication, is very high and going up, thanks to the GOP you are so fond of, and his ex-wife turned into a complete nutcase and screwed him over financially on child support (she's working a job that pays far more than he makes), so he's barely able to survive with the help of friends.

No one makes it on their own. No one. Hard work is definitely important, but it's also far from a guarantee of success, and support networks, health and ability, and favourable circumstances are all equally as important as hard work in determining success in life.