The Behavior of UK Police officers.

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

This is interesting and if true definitely warrants it's own thread. 300% over-representation (by population percentage) is a staggering amount and certainly warrants discussion. However in this particular thread it is also completely contradictory to the OP that Muslims are running wild and not being challenged by the Police.

I think its easier if you assume 1 or 2 people want ALL Muslims locked up or deported as a matter of course. So while they may be over represented its sill woefully short of their preferred target.

 

[Information Analyst]

Well if you want to be clever, no, it doesn't. Five hundred British Muslims were interviewed for that poll. Some, clearly, were gay. Let's say 25. Whilst these 25 people are likely to privately believe their sexuality is not immoral (although you never know), they chose to condemn it. So what's the difference? 100% of Muslims believe homosexuality to be immoral vs 100% of Muslims maintain homosexuality is immoral (but the gay ones probably don't mean it). Pedantry is a poor substitute for honest debate.

Would you like me to go get the figures?

A 2009 survey with such a limited sample coming out with such an absolutist position suggests serious methodological problems.

Not the same question, but this more recent (2016) one is probably more representative:

The Guardian: Half of all British Muslims think homosexuality should be illegal, poll finds

A person thinking something is "immoral" does not necessarily equate to them thinking it should be legally proscribed for others. As others have noted, many people who are deeply religious would also find issues with the things you are so outraged about some Muslims also objecting to. Even if we take something less contentious like alcohol, whilst Islam may forbid it, the idea that Muslims universally eschew it is desperately naïve, although publicly they may say otherwise.

 

[baron]

I think its easier if you assume 1 or 2 people want ALL Muslims locked up or deported as a matter of course. So while they may be over represented its sill woefully short of their preferred target.

Ooh, one or two people. Edgy, or what? No attempt to discuss the topic and not even honest enough to address the poster - me - directly.

 

[baron]

A 2009 survey with such a limited sample coming out with such an absolutist position suggests serious methodological problem.

Not the same question, but this more recent (2016) one is probably more representative:

The Guardian: Half of all British Muslims think homosexuality should be illegal, poll finds

A person thinking something is "immoral" does not necessarily equate to them thinking it should be legally proscribed for others. As other have noted, many people who are deeply religious would also find issues with the things you are so outraged about some Muslims also objecting to. Even if we take something less contentious like alcohol, whilst Islam may forbid it, the idea that Muslims universally eschew it is desperately naïve.

I've already cited that study above. What do you make of it? Is 52% acceptable? Is it typical?

 

[jimbob]

I've already cited that study above. What do you make of it? Is 52% acceptable? Is it typical?

Remember that your claim was 0%

......Muslims - zero percent of whom believe homosexuality is moral -........

You've obviously never been to Morocco.

I'll take the results of a Gallup poll over your, um, 'experiences' in Morocco.

Except, of course, we've moved on from Morocco and are now talking about Britain, where there are many gay Muslims.

 

[Information Analyst]

I've already cited that study above. What do you make of it? Is 52% acceptable? Is it typical?

No, you cited it several posts after the one I was replying to - you had not cited it previously, but were rather relying on the earlier "100% of Muslims think homosexuality is immoral" study.

I think it calls into question the earlier study you put so much store in, not least because your are mistaking a moral judgement within a religion with a supposed desire to impose that morality on wider society that is not part of that religion. I'm surprised you think it backs up your earlier claims, when in fact it clearly undermines them.

 

[Her Dark Star]

Where to start? First, understand that none of this is seriously disputed. Everybody from the Home Secretary to the Human Rights and Equality chairman acknowledges the disproportionate criminality of Muslims, primarily Pakistani Muslims, in the area of rape gangs.

Thank you for the response and the links, I appreciate the effort and will read up as soon as I can. I also appreciate the distinctions you made and the additional information.

 

[baron]

No, you cited it several posts after the one I was replying to - you had not cited it previously, but were rather relying on the earlier "100% of Muslims think homosexuality is immoral" study.

You should read through the thread before replying. That would avoid duplication and wasted time.

I think it calls into question the earlier study you put so much store in, not least because your are mistaking a moral judgement within a religion with a supposed desire to impose that morality on wider society that is not part of that religion. I'm surprised you think it backs up your earlier claims, when in fact it clearly undermines them.

I posted two polls. If you have figures you'd like to post then please go ahead. And I note you didn't answer my question. So here's another. In what way does posting a poll showing 52% of Muslims believe homosexuality should be illegal undermine the results of a poll that shows 0% of Muslims believe homosexuality is moral?

 

[baron]

Thank you for the response and the links, I appreciate the effort and will read up as soon as I can. I also appreciate the distinctions you made and the additional information.

It's rare to have a civilised response on this forum, even if you end up disagreeing, so it's appreciated and you're welcome.

 

[baron]

Remember that your claim was 0%

Please keep up. This is a different poll and a different question.

 

[Information Analyst]

You should read through the thread before replying. That would avoid duplication and wasted time.

I am aware of no such "rule." Some of us have got better things to do with their time than read the whole of a fast-moving thread before going back to address any points worth addressing, even if you haven't.

I posted two polls.

You only posted the second to try to bolster your reliance on the first.

If you have figures you'd like to post then please go ahead. And I note you didn't answer my question. So here's another. In what way does posting a poll showing 52% of Muslims believe homosexuality should be illegal undermine the results of a poll that shows 0% of Muslims believe homosexuality is moral?

It undermines the absolutist interpretation you were so keen to place on the first poll. You are quick to claim that 100% of British Muslims supposedly think homosexual acts are "immoral," yet 48% don't think they should be illegal. How do you square that?

 

[Information Analyst]

Please keep up. This is a different poll and a different question.

Which contradicts the earlier one way more than it supports it.

 

[MikeG]

Instead of these little digs, why not provide some evidence of your claim? What percentage of UK Muslims support gay rights, and please link to your evidence.

Remember, anything above 0% means your claim is falsified. Again.

 

[baron]

hang on... oops

 

[P.J. Denyer]

Boris allowed the Met to buy some surplus German water cannons after the riots. They have been used in a bit in training, but otherwise languished in a police compound ever since it was made clear the government had no intention of sanctioning their use.

Bozo obviously didn't check the law before signing the purchase order. I wish we could say it was an uncharacteristic omission on his part...

 

[baron]

I am aware of no such "rule." Some of us have got better things to do with their time than read the whole of a fast-moving thread before going back to address any points worth addressing, even if you haven't.

Read the thread. Stop wasting my time.

You only posted the second to try to bolster your reliance on the first.


It undermines the absolutist interpretation you were so keen to place on the first poll. You are quick to claim that 100% of British Muslims supposedly think homosexual acts are "immoral," yet 48% don't think they should be illegal. How do you square that?

How do I square two facts that are not mutually exclusive? It's very simple. Watch. Zero percent of Muslims polled state that homosexuality is moral. Fifty two percent of Muslims polled state that homosexuality should be illegal. Ta da! Do you want me to do it again?

Which contradicts the earlier one way more than it supports it.

It doesn't do either. What are you even talking about?

Remember, anything above 0% means your claim is falsified. Again.

Seeing you haven't posted any evidence, links, data or supporting information in this entire thread I shouldn't worry.

 

[P.J. Denyer]

Sadiq Khan was supposed to be selling them again: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...non-boris-johnson-sold-off-without-being-used

I’m not sure how much of a market there is for third-hand water cannon.

Try the London Borough of Uxbridge and South Ruislip, there's a guy there with form for buying dodgy water cannons. Maybe he could use them to keep the Brunel University Rugby Club in line?

 

[baron]

Try the London Borough of Uxbridge and South Ruislip, there's a guy there with form for buying dodgy water cannons. Maybe he could use them to keep the Brunel University Rugby Club in line?

Dangerous things, water cannons...

*graphic*

http://cdn4.spiegel.de/images/image-136833-860_poster_16x9-flec-136833.jpg

 

[P.J. Denyer]

That's going to haunt me.

 

[Information Analyst]

Read the thread. Stop wasting my time.

I read the thread up to the point I replied, which is what most normal people without time to waste do. If you don't like that, tough.

How do I square two facts that are not mutually exclusive? It's very simple. Watch. Zero percent of Muslims polled state that homosexuality is moral. Fifty two percent of Muslims polled state that homosexuality should be illegal. Ta da! Do you want me to do it again?

What, be deliberately obtuse? The poll on legality puts the poll on morality into its proper context. If you don't like that being pointed out, tough. If you're just annoyed that I found the second poll completely independently of your warped interpretation of it, and pointed out what it actually shows, tough.

Which contradicts the earlier one way more than it supports it.

Sure it does, because there is a difference between morality and legality, especially in the context of Baylor's claim about Muslims supposedly imposing their views on the rest of society. And, as others have pointed out, it not like they have the monopoly on viewing homosexuality as immoral.

Seeing you haven't posted any evidence, links, data or supporting information in this entire thread I shouldn't worry.

Well, I think that adequately proves that you have not been reading the thread properly, to make such a clearly false claim. Tough.