Cont: Brexit: Now What? Part 5

[Andy_Ross]

Yea, go for it. Dump off Islas Malvinas and Gibraltar while your at it.

Now you're just being silly, everybody knows they are far too important. Foreigners want to take them away so we will fight to the last to keep them.

 

[Lukraak_Sisser]

Saying what (they think) we might lose is negative. If they want to be positive they should say what they hope to gain in the future by remaining in the EU.

Well, one minor point. Right now several EU countries are giving up their sovereignty by allowing UK border controls on their soil to stem a flow of immigrants, at the cost of a lot of social unrest near the ports to the UK, in order to comply with the EU rules of equal sharing and at the request of a EU member.

I strongly suspect that once the UK leaves the EU, France and Belgium are not quite so eager to keep doing that and will happily let the UK deal with the problem on its own soil.

 

[Andy_Ross]

May says those who refuse to back the Chequers plan for Brexit are "playing politics" with the UK's future.

Has she just noticed?

 

[Jack by the hedge]

… So what is it about Englishness and Brexit? Why does feeling English predict voting Leave? Anyone got any pet theories?

Maybe looking for the answer in England isn't the right place.

In terms of England voting Leave and Scotland voting Remain, I tend to think it's just a big fish/small pond thing. With England being ten times as populous as Scotland, their relationship within the UK has England entirely dominant but in the EU context that changes. Yes, Scotland is just a minnow in that large group but there's no single big fish which gets everything its own way.

That's why I suspect slogans like "take back control" would have less traction North of the border, where they have an element of "give England back control".

 

[Jack by the hedge]

May says those who refuse to back the Chequers plan for Brexit are "playing politics" with the UK's future.

Has she just noticed?

For the full effect she should get a smart little kepi like Louis's from Casablanca and tell us how shocked she is.

 

[GnaGnaMan]

Could be that the English are fed up of subsidising the EU. And also fed up, though to a lesser extent, of subsidising Scotland, Northern Ireland, and Wales.

Wow. Ok.

If I ever get asked: "When did you realize that the UK would really break apart?", I may point to this, right here.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

What? We get that if we remain in the EU? I thought that was one of the things remainers enjoy sneering about that we might get when we leave the EU.

No it was one of the lies told by Leavers that we could only get Blue Passports back if we left. Only a little one though, they didn't paint it on the side of a bus or photoshop a bunch of refugees on to an ad featuring it.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

Could be that the English are fed up of subsidising the EU. And also fed up, though to a lesser extent, of subsidising Scotland, Northern Ireland, and Wales.

Could be that the English don't know their backside from their elbow then, are sadly misinformed, ignorant and, if this is evidence of much, thick as mince.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

That would explain why the English are so eager to get rid of them.

I always wondered about that. Hardly worth the effort of conquering them in the first place.

Scotland wasn't conquered thanks. Sold out by numpties to numpties.

 

[jimbob]

Could be that the English are fed up of subsidising the EU. And also fed up, though to a lesser extent, of subsidising Scotland, Northern Ireland, and Wales.

Hahahaha

I would argue that a fair proportion of people who voted brexit are actually being 'subsidised' by remainers.

Or in the case of farmers, literally being subsidised by the EU

 

[The Moog]

Or in the case of farmers, literally being subsidised by the EU

Especially farmers in Wales...

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

Maybe looking for the answer in England isn't the right place.

In terms of England voting Leave and Scotland voting Remain, I tend to think it's just a big fish/small pond thing. With England being ten times as populous as Scotland, their relationship within the UK has England entirely dominant but in the EU context that changes. Yes, Scotland is just a minnow in that large group but there's no single big fish which gets everything its own way.

That's why I suspect slogans like "take back control" would have less traction North of the border, where they have an element of "give England back control".

Certainly this is a part of it. Also worth considering that its the same people who proudly insist that we are all Better Together who also insist that we are Better Apart from the EU and their two-facedness is obvious to anyone with a modicum of sense.

Scotland is also fundamentally different from England in many senses - we don't share the same sense of superiority, many don't buy into or feel actively alienated by the brand of Britishness that England seems to promote, we don't for a second buy into the Two World Wars and One World Cup mentality.

Not only that but we are a small country with a fairly stagnant population growth and a fairly positive view of immigrants overall. Politically Scotland is at least 10 points more progressive than England on my newly made up scale. And a lot more worldy in our viewpoint - which may or may not be a result of generally having a very positive image outside of the UK, especially in Europe unlike England who are generally seen as being as welcome as a fart in a spacesuit these days.

I would picture the scene in the pub - Scotland are quietly sitting watching the TV and enjoying a pint when England comes in changes the channel, start talking pish to each other in loud voices and abusing the EU barmaid.

 

[fagin]

Could be that the English don't know their backside from their elbow then, are sadly misinformed, ignorant and, if this is evidence of much, thick as mince.

I resent that. May have posted this before, but this is me, making friends with one of my Scottish cousins. She didn't say much, but it might have been the language barrier.

 

[The Moog]

I resent that. May have posted this before, but this is me, making friends with one of my Scottish cousins. She didn't say much, but it might have been the language barrier.

[qimg]https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4761/40026340351_8d452bc863_c.jpg[/qimg]

Has she considered going into politics?

ETA: A leak from future wikipedia:

 

[ceptimus]

Or in the case of farmers, literally being subsidised by the EU

Given that we pay more into the EU than we get back in subsidies, that translates as "subsidised by English taxpayers."

 

[jimbob]

Given that we pay more into the EU than we get back in subsidies, that translates as "subsidised by English taxpayers."

And has been pointed out multiple times - the trade benefits *far* outweigh the costs for individuals as well as groups.

Having more chance of a job, and a better job,

Having the opportunity to look for work in the rest of the EU

Having EU subsidies for infrastructure projects in deprived parts of the country.

Having EU wide standards making trade better

Having EU employment rights

Having EU customer rights


And as was pointed out - many of the leave voters were direct beneficiaries of the EU, even if they didn't realise

 

[The Moog]

*snip*

Don't worry Jim, as soon as the UK crashes out of every trade agreement we had then we will zoom away without having to bother with that messy 'exporting' or 'trade' business.

 

[Amazer]

And has been pointed out multiple times - the trade benefits *far* outweigh the costs for individuals as well as groups.

Having more chance of a job, and a better job,

Having the opportunity to look for work in the rest of the EU

Having EU subsidies for infrastructure projects in deprived parts of the country.

Having EU wide standards making trade better

Having EU employment rights

Having EU customer rights


And as was pointed out - many of the leave voters were direct beneficiaries of the EU, even if they didn't realise

By the looks of it we will find out shortly what the actual advantages are of being in the EU... with a real life example kindly being provided by the UK.

Sent from my SM-J700F using Tapatalk

 

[Dave Rogers]

Scotland is also fundamentally different from England in many senses - we don't share the same sense of superiority, many don't buy into or feel actively alienated by the brand of Britishness that England seems to promote, we don't for a second buy into the Two World Wars and One World Cup mentality.

To be fair, notwithstanding your possibly disproportionate contribution to the two World Wars, you're still a World Cup short.

Dave

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

Given that we pay more into the EU than we get back in subsidies, that translates as "subsidised by English taxpayers."

Half the gammon that voted for leaving are probably doing cash in hand jobs and fiddling the VAT.

And given that Scottish farmers were robbed of £160m of EU funds by English Tories handing it to English Farmers one wonders who is really subsidising who here.

https://www.thescottishfarmer.co.uk...receive-160-million-lost-convergence-funding/

I really wish I could inhabit the fact-free world of Brexit Britain. Angelina Jolie and Scarlett Johannson would be living in my spare room and Ferrari would keep sending me products to test. Unfortunately I'm stuck in sad old gammon land with a bunch of twats who don't read anything but the Daily Mail .