Cont: Brexit: Now What? Part 5

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"In latest set of ‘no-deal’ notices, government says [UK to EU] planes would be grounded because EU licences would not be valid"

So May would have to take the train or ferry to get to Europe for emergency negotiations ;)
 
Dave Rogers said:
In my experience of those who are uncomfortable around brown people, many seemed to feel that the encampment around Calais was in some sense the EU's fault.
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The blurring of the difference between EU migrants (who had a right to come here) and African or other non-EU migrants rather reminded me of the blurring of the distinction between those who perpetrated 9/11 and Iraq.
 
Jack by the hedge said:
It was perhaps more a case of being uncomfortable around people speaking Polish. The brown people were encamped around Calais, trying to cross the channel.

But it turns out if you tell people they're racists and against progress their takeaway message is that "racists" means whatever they feel about the changes will be ignored and "progress" means you intend the future to be more of these changes they don't like. Who would have thought it?

That makes it a bad time to ask them to vote on what they think of the show so far.
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You made the same argument as Tucker Carlson.

Here he is making the same argument.

https://www.diversityinc.com/news/fox-news-tucker-carlson-latino-immigrants-made-town-volatile-white-people

So I am very familiar with the position. This is well traveled ground in america. And it is racist because the people who make these arguments never seem to side with the people fighting gentrification. Now if he had a similar show about wealthy whites moving into brooklyn or Harlem then it would at least be consistent.

But it seems these arguments only go one way.
 
Jack by the hedge said:
Yes, except for the "before you call anyone bigoted..." part. Go ahead and call them bigoted.

Just be aware that the bigots you just called bigots are the same ones you're about to ask to vote for or against the status quo.
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Ah yes we have to respect the feelings of the bigots and nazis, you can't ever call them on their racism, and if you call them deplorable you are right out.

It is like refusing the be friends with racists and nazis, you have to keep them as your friends and be civil and keep them happy. Yes I am very familiar with this argument.
 
ponderingturtle said:
Ah yes we have to respect the feelings of the bigots and nazis, you can't ever call them on their racism, and if you call them deplorable you are right out.

It is like refusing the be friends with racists and nazis, you have to keep them as your friends and be civil and keep them happy. Yes I am very familiar with this argument.
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That does seem to be an argument you're very familiar with but it wasn't really the argument I was making.
 
Jack by the hedge said:
That does seem to be an argument you're very familiar with but it wasn't really the argument I was making.
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Yes it was. It is exactly the same

See Tucker Carlson

" "In the year 2000, Hazleton's population was 2 percent Hispanic. Just 16 years later, Hazleton is majority Hispanic. That's a lot of change.

"People who grew up in Hazleton found out that they can't communicate with the people who now live there. And that's bewildering for people.

"That's happening all over the country. No nation, no society has ever changed this much this fast."

That is your argument only instead of hispanic it is polish.

What is the difference?
 
There is a chap by the name of Christopher Howarth doing the rounds on Twitter who appears to be some kind of adviser to the Tories and is straight-faced doubling down on a comment that the 'South' (of Ireland) should move to rejoin the UK post-Brexit.

Hard to understate exactly how stupid that comment is and makes you wonder what planet some Tories are living on.
 
Jack by the hedge said:
Yes, except for the "before you call anyone bigoted..." part. Go ahead and call them bigoted.

Just be aware that the bigots you just called bigots are the same ones you're about to ask to vote for or against the status quo.
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The problem of course is this isn't what happened. Actually the people who called the vote had spent the last few decades agreeing with the racists, reinforcing their prejudices and telling them they'd love to help them but that the EU is stopping them.

Then asked them to vote on the EU.

And hardly a soul spoke out against them.

The only question is whether it was a deliberate plan or whether it was simply the Tories playing with fire and getting burned. The sickening thing is that Labour went along with them playing the same tune.
 
Jack by the hedge said:
The difference is I'm not defending bigotry or advising anyone not to call it out. Just pointing out it sucks when it turns out the bigots are in the majority.
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Yes you are, you are telling them not to call out the bigotry of the little englanders because it will not win them to the other side. That is exactly what you were advocating

"People voted to leave because the level of immigration was too high for too long and there's a threshold above which people get the gut feeling that their high street doesn't feel like home any more and they don't like it. You can dismiss that as racism but... oh, wait, that's exactly what happened, and it did the opposite of helping."
and

"But it turns out if you tell people they're racists and against progress their takeaway message is that "racists" means whatever they feel about the changes will be ignored and "progress" means you intend the future to be more of these changes they don't like. Who would have thought it?

That makes it a bad time to ask them to vote on what they think of the show so far."

The second one is exactly about not calling people out on racism. If you are uncomfortable simply by people talking that is a pretty clear indication that there is something up with you.

As for the Poles being white? Come on they were always the untermensch.
 
Archie Gemmill Goal said:
The problem of course is this isn't what happened. Actually the people who called the vote had spent the last few decades agreeing with the racists, reinforcing their prejudices and telling them they'd love to help them but that the EU is stopping them.

Then asked them to vote on the EU.

And hardly a soul spoke out against them.

The only question is whether it was a deliberate plan or whether it was simply the Tories playing with fire and getting burned. The sickening thing is that Labour went along with them playing the same tune.
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Exactly
 
GlennB said:
"In latest set of ‘no-deal’ notices, government says [UK to EU] planes would be grounded because EU licences would not be valid"

So May would have to take the train or ferry to get to Europe for emergency negotiations ;)
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Also today they say that haulage firms will have only a limited number of licenses to drive in Europe if their is no deal. they are anticipating a demand far larger than what will be available and hauliers should start the application process now just in case!
 
Captain_Swoop said:
Also today they say that haulage firms will have only a limited number of licenses to drive in Europe if their is no deal. they are anticipating a demand far larger than what will be available and hauliers should start the application process now just in case!
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Why would any self-respecting British teamster want to go mucking around in Europe anyway?

It's full of icky furriners.
 
Archie Gemmill Goal said:
The problem of course is this isn't what happened. Actually the people who called the vote had spent the last few decades agreeing with the racists, reinforcing their prejudices and telling them they'd love to help them but that the EU is stopping them.

Then asked them to vote on the EU.
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I was trying to think how to word that lot, but you saved me the trouble.
Ta.

It's not as if there was only a bunch of people saying "don't be rude to the foreigners". There was a large number of people saying "ooh, look at all them foreigners using all our services".

Archie Gemmill Goal said:
The only question is whether it was a deliberate plan or whether it was simply the Tories playing with fire and getting burned. The sickening thing is that Labour went along with them playing the same tune.
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It was the bolded bit, IMO.
 
Captain_Swoop said:
Also today they say that haulage firms will have only a limited number of licenses to drive in Europe if their is no deal. they are anticipating a demand far larger than what will be available and hauliers should start the application process now just in case!
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Yes and the FTA has been pointing that out for months now - I previously posted links to their press releases on this subject
 
Just say after me:
It's all the fault of the EU.
It's all the fault of the EU.
It's all the fault of the EU.
 
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