• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Cont: The Trump Presidency IX: Nein, Nein!

Status
Not open for further replies.
Civet said:
They're giving farmers something like $12 billion in additional subsidy money though, so that should buy some good will from voters in those states even if the tariffs hit them pretty hard.
Click to expand...

And it seems to me that this is the stupidest thing of all. Perhaps that's because I don't understand the economics fully, but this is my take and perhaps anybody who knows more about it than I do can tell me if and where I'm going wrong.

So, Trump imposes tariffs. China imposes retaliatory tariffs. That means that the Chinese government taxes the importing of goods at a higher rate. This means that importers can afford to buy fewer goods. This means that US exporters can sell fewer goods. Thich means they make less money. To counteract this, the US government is giving the exporters government money.

So...essentially what this trade war is doing is funnelling money from the US government to the Chinese government. I know that's a simplistic view of it all, but isn't that what it all boils down to?
 
The US is massively benefiting from buying cheap from China: all the energy and infrastructure costs, the environmental damage and the negative health issues for workers stay in China, Americans just get the fruit of the labor. China is subsidizing the US with cheap products, especially the US building industry with cheap steel.
 
ponderingturtle said:
Please this was clear before the election and people wanted a president who suggested renegotiating the national debt. That is exactly what the republican party wanted.

They elected Dunning Kruger. They want Dunning Kruger.
Click to expand...

What the book showed was that Trump isn't just stupid, he's too stupid to be educated. It was a stupid idea to try to negotiate the debt. What I got out of the book was he isn't smart enough to be educated as to why he can't negotiate.
 
Captain_Swoop said:
Trump Tweets

"Kim Jong Un has agreed to allow Nuclear inspections, subject to final negotiations, and to permanently dismantle a test site and launch pad in the presence of international experts. In the meantime there will be no Rocket or Nuclear testing. Hero remains to continue being........"

"....returned home to the United States. Also, North and South Korea will file a joint bid to host the 2032 Olympics. Very exciting!"
Click to expand...
Playing him like a fiddle.
 
Captain_Swoop said:
Trump Tweets

"Kim Jong Un has agreed to allow Nuclear inspections, subject to final negotiations, and to permanently dismantle a test site and launch pad in the presence of international experts. In the meantime there will be no Rocket or Nuclear testing. Hero remains to continue being........"

"....returned home to the United States. Also, North and South Korea will file a joint bid to host the 2032 Olympics. Very exciting!"
Click to expand...

Hero? Weren't those captured? I prefer heroes that don't get captured or killed.
 
Captain_Swoop said:
Trump Tweets

"Kim Jong Un has agreed to allow Nuclear inspections, subject to final negotiations, and to permanently dismantle a test site and launch pad in the presence of international experts. In the meantime there will be no Rocket or Nuclear testing. Hero remains to continue being........"

"....returned home to the United States. Also, North and South Korea will file a joint bid to host the 2032 Olympics. Very exciting!"
Click to expand...


I wonder if that's the same test site they'd already been planning to close after one of their tests got away from them last year and collapsed a good part of it, contaminating much of what didn't collapse with radioactives from the blast?
 
Gasp! Has the Dear Leader admitted to weakness?

[blockquote] Trump suggested he had a personal blind spot when it came to nominating Sessions as the nation’s top law enforcement officer.

“I’m so sad over Jeff Sessions because he came to me. He was the first Senator that endorsed me. And he wanted to be Attorney General, and I didn’t see it,” he said.
[/blockquote]

https://thehill.com/hilltv/rising/4...trump-eviscerates-sessions-i-have-no-attorney

I thought he was worlds greatest judge of character.
 
quadraginta said:
I wonder if that's the same test site they'd already been planning to close after one of their tests got away from them last year and collapsed a good part of it, contaminating much of what didn't collapse with radioactives from the blast?
Click to expand...

That was one of the first things that come to mind. As for "pending final negotiations," that's not especially comforting when it's the DPRK saying it. It's even less comforting that Trump himself would be fairly certain to agree to horrible deals for the country if he thought that he would benefit from it personally.

As for the returns of the remains of our heroes, if I recall correctly, the DPRK has given us batches of remains that were not of Americans and done that not all that long ago. Pending identification, I'm not going to just assume that they're acting in good faith. That's beside the point that the return of the remains of our dead from how many years ago is something that I consider to be a minor side-note that doesn't require the DPRK to actually stop doing any of the lots of stuff that we actually really don't want them to be doing.

As for the cooperation regarding the Olympics... It's a good sign, but it's worth remembering that SK wanted Trump to meet with Kim to reduce the chance that Trump would be attacking the DPRK, and that was after diplomatic relations with SK anyways. So... not something that I'd give any credit to Trump for.

As for Trump claiming these things... well, given Trump's record, he's not even remotely a reliable source.
 
Stacko said:
IIRC, I think he went the vicsims route with his accusation.
Click to expand...
No. It's true that, far as I know, we haven't counted deaths by hurricane in terms of long term effects prior to Maria. That's new.

We can't reliably do so, I think, for earlier hurricanes (I could be wrong), but this is a new measure. In New Orleans, we measured the dead by immediate, not long term, effects.

That does suggest that there's an inconsistency in comparing the effects of Maria to other storms.
 
Squeegee Beckenheim said:
And it seems to me that this is the stupidest thing of all. Perhaps that's because I don't understand the economics fully, but this is my take and perhaps anybody who knows more about it than I do can tell me if and where I'm going wrong.

So, Trump imposes tariffs. China imposes retaliatory tariffs. That means that the Chinese government taxes the importing of goods at a higher rate. This means that importers can afford to buy fewer goods. This means that US exporters can sell fewer goods. Thich means they make less money. To counteract this, the US government is giving the exporters government money.

So...essentially what this trade war is doing is funnelling money from the US government to the Chinese government. I know that's a simplistic view of it all, but isn't that what it all boils down to?
Click to expand...
Keep in mind the trade disparity. China relies on selling goods to the US more than the other way round.

Not that I support this approach, but it's not quite as simple as you suggest.
 
phiwum said:
Keep in mind the trade disparity. China relies on selling goods to the US more than the other way round.

Not that I support this approach, but it's not quite as simple as you suggest.
Click to expand...

The better point is that it's pointedly driving prices up for Americans and putting Americans out of their jobs, who are the people that he actually should be concerned about. He's also further sabotaging Americans by giving the Chinese good reason and justification to break or just not renew their contracts with Americans and seek customers elsewhere, and that's a lot of business that took quite a while to negotiate. This has both a negative economic and diplomatic effect.
 
LSSBB said:
Playing him like a fiddle.
Click to expand...
That North Korea has agreed to inspections is good. It doesn't mean they're totally above board, but it's good. This is something that didn't happen pre-Trump.

Let's see what happens hereafter. This might be a positive development attributable to Trump. We should wait and see.
 
phiwum said:
That North Korea has agreed to inspections is good. It doesn't mean they're totally above board, but it's good. This is something that didn't happen pre-Trump.

Let's see what happens hereafter. This might be a positive development attributable to Trump. We should wait and see.
Click to expand...

It's hard to get attention when you keep playing the same note. You need to add variety.
 
Aridas said:
Re: Trump's trade war with China...

The better point is that it's pointedly driving prices up for Americans and putting Americans out of their jobs, who are the people that he actually should be concerned about. He's also further sabotaging Americans by giving the Chinese good reason and justification to break or just not renew their contracts with Americans and seek customers elsewhere, and that's a lot of business that took quite a while to negotiate. This has both a negative economic and diplomatic effect.
Click to expand...
You know, it is too bad that the U.S. didn't have some other trading partnership it could have gotten involved with to minimize the effects of a trade dispute with China. Perhaps some other trade block involving other pacific rim countries, where companies can find non-chinese companies to make deals with.

Oh, wait, we had that. The Trans Pacific Partnership. Which the Trump administration withdrew from. Good move Trump. Withdraw from the TPP (making yourself more reliant on China than you need to be) then start a major trade dispute with the country you rely on.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans-Pacific_Partnership
 
Aridas said:
The better point is that it's pointedly driving prices up for Americans and putting Americans out of their jobs, who are the people that he actually should be concerned about. He's also further sabotaging Americans by giving the Chinese good reason and justification to break or just not renew their contracts with Americans and seek customers elsewhere, and that's a lot of business that took quite a while to negotiate. This has both a negative economic and diplomatic effect.
Click to expand...
Sure, but it's possible that this has a long term positive effect for the US. I doubt it, but there is some leverage here.

A large part of the Chinese economy depends on selling to the US. Failure to do so hurts US consumers in the short term, but might force better deals with China.

I am not a Trump supporter, by any stretch. But there is an asymmetry here which might work in his favor. Already, China is running out of goods to tariff.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom