Cont: Mueller Investigation pt3

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Segnosaur said:
Firing comey. Duh!
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So basically it boils down to you think he could be charged with this based on current evidence? You are aware of course that Rod Rosentein recommended the firing of Comey? If Trump wanted to, he could fire Comey because he dislikes the cufflinks he chose one day. He has that authority. However, at the recommendation of your DOJ -- no chance. Try again.

I agree the declassifying is cherry picked. I wish it wasn't.
 
River said:
So basically it boils down to you think he could be charged with this based on current evidence? You are aware of course that Rod Rosentein recommended the firing of Comey? If Trump wanted to, he could fire Comey because he dislikes the cufflinks he chose one day. He has that authority. However, at the recommendation of your DOJ -- no chance. Try again.

I agree the declassifying is cherry picked. I wish it wasn't.
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The Trump administration wanted cover for firing Comey, and Rosenstein provided reasons. From what I recall, the Deputy Attorney General said Comey was very unfair to Clinton when he broke with DOJ protocol regarding elections.

Trump later clarified that fired Comey for the Russia thing.
 
River said:
I have no doubt that Mueller and pals would love to find something to go after Trump for.
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What about Mueller and his history make you think that he would enjoy going after a sitting Republican President?

Do you actually believe he is a democrat? Have you fallen for that "17 angry dems" crap?
 
River said:
I have no doubt that Mueller and pals would love to find something to go after Trump for. One would assume they have been doing their best to do so for quite some time now. I don't think any previous president has gone through such a thorough "probe" or review. Unprecedented?

<snip>
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Really? I don't think you are thinking very hard about it.

Ken Starr spent four years investigating Bill Clinton. An investigation which he took over from someone else, which branched out into investigating Vince Foster's death, "Travelgate", a handful of unrelated abuse of power claims, Paula Jones, and ...at the culmination of that four years ... getting Clinton impeached on a perjury charge for denying he got a nob job from a power groupie.

By comparison Mueller has been laser-focused and moved with light-speed.
 
River said:
Firing comey. Duh!
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So basically it boils down to you think he could be charged with this based on current evidence? You are aware of course that Rod Rosentein recommended the firing of Comey?
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Yes, Rosenstein wrote a letter recommended the firing.

However, Trump also made statements about how:
- He was going to fire Rosenstein regardless of the letter
- Trump has stated that the issue was "The russia thing" was on his mind when he fired Comey
- Asked Comey during a meeting to back off on the investigation of Flynn.

The fact that Trump and his surrogates have issued so many contradictory statements suggests that they are not exactly trustworthy individuals.

https://www.cnn.com/2017/05/11/politics/trump-comey-timeline/index.html
If Trump wanted to, he could fire Comey because he dislikes the cufflinks he chose one day. He has that authority.
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Whether he has the authority or not is not the issue. If Trump took actions that were self-serving in order to stop an investigation into his own crimes, then it is obstruction, regardless of his legal ability to fire people.
 
quadraginta said:
Really? I don't think you are thinking very hard about it.

Ken Starr spent four years investigating Bill Clinton. An investigation which he took over from someone else, which branched out into investigating Vince Foster's death, "Travelgate", a handful of unrelated abuse of power claims, Paula Jones, and ...at the culmination of that four years ... getting Clinton impeached on a perjury charge for denying he got a nob job from a power groupie.

By comparison Mueller has been laser-focused and moved with light-speed.
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I'm not so sure those two are comparable due to the varied reasons they began. Clinton did get a long ongoing investigation for sure, as did Nixon. In the end we'll see what if anything ends up sticking to Trump. I'm not convinced by any of the current evidence.
 
Segnosaur said:
Yes, Rosenstein wrote a letter recommended the firing.

However, Trump also made statements about how:
- He was going to fire Rosenstein regardless of the letter
- Trump has stated that the issue was "The russia thing" was on his mind when he fired Comey
- Asked Comey during a meeting to back off on the investigation of Flynn.

The fact that Trump and his surrogates have issued so many contradictory statements suggests that they are not exactly trustworthy individuals.

https://www.cnn.com/2017/05/11/politics/trump-comey-timeline/index.html

Whether he has the authority or not is not the issue. If Trump took actions that were self-serving in order to stop an investigation into his own crimes, then it is obstruction, regardless of his legal ability to fire people.
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My bold. Right, so if he actually did that the Mueller probe would've never began because he could've done the same thing with everyone involved. Comey was corrupt, and history will show that. Will he see time? Who knows, probably not. McCabe looks to be in a worse position just from the outlay.
 
River said:
My bold. Right, so if he actually did that the Mueller probe would've never began because he could've done the same thing with everyone involved. Comey was corrupt, and history will show that. Will he see time? Who knows, probably not. McCabe looks to be in a worse position just from the outlay.
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Not convinced by the current evidence against Trump, but you believe Comey is "corrupt."

Please list evidence for that (idle conjecture does not count).
 
Delphic Oracle said:
Not convinced by the current evidence against Trump, but you believe Comey is "corrupt."

Please list evidence for that (idle conjecture does not count).
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Sure. Take a read on Horowitz report.

"While we did not find that these decisions were the result of political bias on Comey’s part, we nevertheless concluded that by departing so clearly and dramatically from FBI and department norms, the decisions negatively impacted the perception of the FBI and the department as fair administrators of justice," Inspector General Michael Horowitz concluded in the report. The 568-page document focused on the FBI's handling of the investigation of Clinton's use of a private email server while she was secretary of state.
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Also there is this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A09yHufpVlM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dax8KvfPXPI

(actual footage of people speaking)

After discovering this Comey decides Clinton did not lie to the fbi or did not break any laws intentionally and makes an announcement. Some of the Horowitz report addresses that. Yet some of his own testimony seems to conflict with his decisions. I suspect we may hear more about fisa, and email issues in the future.


In November 2016, Democratic Minority Leader Representative Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) Said James Comey Made Mistakes And Was Perhaps "Not In The Right Job." DEMOCRATIC MINORITY LEADER REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): "So I think he made a mistake and these jobs, if you're not in it for a while, you can't take the heat and I think he just couldn't take the heat from the Republicans. It's really unfortunate because I do believe he is a good person Maybe, he's not in the right job." (CNN's "The Situation Room," 11/02/16)

Senator Harry Reid (D-NV) Told MSNBC "Of Course" He Believed Jim Comey Should Resign. MSNCB's JOY REID: "Do you believe Jim Comey should resign Senator Reid?" SEN. HARRY REID (D-NV): "Of course, yes." (MSNBC's "AM Joy," 12/10/16)

Edited by Agatha: 
Trimmed for rule 4. At the present time I do not have a source for this quote.
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River said:
Sure. Take a read on Horowitz report.



Also there is this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A09yHufpVlM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dax8KvfPXPI

(actual footage of people speaking)

After discovering this Comey decides Clinton did not lie to the fbi or did not break any laws intentionally and makes an announcement. Some of the Horowitz report addresses that. Yet some of his own testimony seems to conflict with his decisions. I suspect we may hear more about fisa, and email issues in the future.
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It will remain hotly contested for some time whether and/or how Comey/The FBI made mistakes.

I asked about corruption.

These snippets of cherry-picked facts and, as I predicted, heaps of idle conjecture convince you of "corruption", but you can't sniff one lie from Trump or see the plain as day warning shots he tries to intimidate investigators with?

It's been nice and all, good luck with the rest of your time here on ISF.
 
River said:
My bold. Right, so if he actually did that the Mueller probe would've never began because he could've done the same thing with everyone involved. Comey was corrupt, and history will show that. Will he see time? Who knows, probably not. McCabe looks to be in a worse position just from the outlay.
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Oh, nonsense that Comey was corrupt. You can second guess some decisions no doubt. And I do. But corrupt???
Bull **** !!!

Stop drinking the Trump Kool-aid.

Trump shouldn't have fired him and then said to Lester Holt on national television that he did it because of the Russia investigation. That alone made Trump look guilty as hell and provided probable cause for further investigation. It was like being stopped by the police and ask them not to look in the trunk.

Now who knows, at the end of this there may not be enough to prove conspiracy on Trump. Although, it's damn easy to show obstruction even though I doubt that he would be charged with that unless the conspiracy charge is easily proven. Kushner and Trump Jr. clearly committed felonies as well, but they will likely skate because of who Daddy is.

When do you wake up to the irrefutable fact that Trump is a sleaze and has been for decades?
 
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quadraginta said:
Really? I don't think you are thinking very hard about it.

Ken Starr spent four years investigating Bill Clinton. An investigation which he took over from someone else, which branched out into investigating Vince Foster's death, "Travelgate", a handful of unrelated abuse of power claims, Paula Jones, and ...at the culmination of that four years ... getting Clinton impeached on a perjury charge for denying he got a nob job from a power groupie.

By comparison Mueller has been laser-focused and moved with light-speed.
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Speaking of Ken Star guess who helped him sling mud.

 
acbytesla said:
Trump shouldn't have fired him and then said to Lester Holt on national television that he did it because of the Russia investigation. That alone made Trump look guilty as hell and provided probable cause for further investigation. It was like being stopped by the police and ask them not to look in the trunk.
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If I might quibble: It's like being stopped by the police and telling them that you've got a ton of illegal stuff in the trunk but you're not going to give them permission to search it.
 
Babbylonian said:
If I might quibble: It's like being stopped by the police and telling them that you've got a ton of illegal stuff in the trunk but you're not going to give them permission to search it.
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The bizarre part of all this is I wouldn't be so sure of Trump's guilt if it wasn't that I've NEVER EVER EVER seen someone innocent act as guilty as Trump has from day one. Every word out of his mouth and every tweet that it was a witch hunt only makes you believe that it isn't.

And oh BTW, if you're complaining about the cost, you can stop. Mueller has recovered more in asset forfeiture from his defendants than the cost of the investigation.
 
Speculation: The Russians could easily have been blackmailing Manafort.
Special counsel Robert S. Mueller III’s investigation has painstakingly documented evidence of Manafort’s role in a 10-year scheme involving money laundering, tax evasion and illicit lobbying — crimes that could lead to decades in a prison cell. Given Manafort’s extensive ties to Russian and Ukrainian oligarchs, Russian President Vladimir Putin would almost certainly have had detailed knowledge of Manafort’s transgressions. And that means that, when Manafort was promoted to chairman of Trump’s campaign in May 2016, the Kremlin probably had vast amounts of material it could use to blackmail him. When it was revealed in August 2016 that Manafort had received at least $12.7 million in secret payments from the pro-Kremlin party of Viktor Yanukovych, Ukraine’s ousted president, that alone was enough to end his nascent return to U.S. politics.
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https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...g-about-paul-manafort/?utm_term=.b0153eda4856
 
River said:
Does anyone think these documents might change things or did anyone notice this?
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Segnosaur said:
Yes, Trump is declassifying a bunch of stuff. Basically its a hail mary, an attempt to discredit the people investigating his many potential crimes.
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One of the worst aspects of this stupid action by Trump is that, not only will it compromise the FBI by publicly revealing some of their methods of gaining information about criminal activity, it is almost certainly going to expose confidential sources of information used by the FBI... In a very real sense, part of their NOC list will be in the clear, and that will lead to, at best ruined careers, and worst, deaths.

Every ruined career and every murdered informant will be on Trump's head. Not that he will care... its all about No. 1 with the Dolt, he cares about no-one but himself.
 
And if their "sources" are only the Steele dossier and their methods are illegal leaks to the press then how does that endanger anyone?
 
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