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Cont: The Trump Presidency IX: Nein, Nein!

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I have a feeling Manafort might not be giving too much up.

But I could be wrong.
 
Belz... said:
Given how much we complain about money in politics and now foreigners trying to influence elections, I'm not going to do that.
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My suggestion we meant for US citizens. Until we get public financing of elections, which is not on the horizon anytime soon, money in politics is a reality
 
Minoosh said:
I have a feeling Manafort might not be giving too much up.

But I could be wrong.
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I think someone mentioned a 17 page cooperation agreement. That'd be a lot of work in writing something up just for a bread crumb. Unless it was cookie cutter. I wouldn't know.
 
dudalb said:
And it's not like I am going to put 100% trust in the Democratic party,either.
I could easily see the Dems,in power, becoming just as power hungry and ruthless as the GOP. Power corrupts,end of story.
Yes, I will vote democratic this November as an emergency measure, but ,frankly, I have no love for either of the major parties.
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Trump’s takeover of the Republican Party is an existential threat to American democracy that only the Democratic Party – whatever it’s faults - can address.

The Democratic Party has shown nothing like the threat to democracy that the Republicans have. In terms of the threat to democracy, it is a false equivalency between the Democrats and the Republicans
 
Paul2 said:
Trump’s takeover of the Republican Party is an existential threat to American democracy that only the Democratic Party – whatever it’s faults - can address.

The Democratic Party has shown nothing like the threat to democracy that the Republicans have. In terms of the threat to democracy, it is a false equivalency between the Democrats and the Republicans
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I disagree: only Conservative Elites can fix the democracy deficits of the GOP.

Republicans are more or less in the same situation as the UKIP party in Britain: by their success, they have made themselves obsolete. The only program left is to prevent Democrats from rolling back their extreme policies - but that is not enough to motivate swing voters.
Republicans need to find an actual ideology to rally behind, something forward-looking instead of a just fear and fake nostalgia.
 
The Great Zaganza said:
I disagree: only Conservative Elites can fix the democracy deficits of the GOP.

Republicans are more or less in the same situation as the UKIP party in Britain: by their success, they have made themselves obsolete. The only program left is to prevent Democrats from rolling back their extreme policies - but that is not enough to motivate swing voters.
Republicans need to find an actual ideology to rally behind, something forward-looking instead of a just fear and fake nostalgia.
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My concern is that the Democrats become defacto the only viable political party;the corruption will set in very quickly. Democracy and One Political Party systems whther it's official or de facto.. are incompatible.
And Power is a tremendous corrupter.
My best hope is that the GOP gets it butt kicked, but not enough to wreck it;just enough to teach them a lesson and let the more reasonable forces take the party back.
And if you doubt Dems can be just a corrupt as Republicans, I give you Illinois.
 
Fast Eddie B said:
Compulsion, or carefully crafted tactic?

Witnessed and distilled by Roy Cohn, refined by Roger Stone, handed down to Donald Trump.

Admittedly, I can see how, over time, a tactic of continual lying and reflexive attacking of “enemies” can become internalized. To historians it may prove to be an interesting case of a tactic morphing into a pathology.

We’ll see what happens! :p
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This is a long established behavior of Trump's to project any challenge to his ego back on the person who challenged him. It's not something that started with his political campaign. That suggests it is not calculated. It also happens to be classic pathology.

Applying that classic pathology to politics where Trump is attacked daily (rightly so), it makes the 'bounces off me and sticks to you' prominent to the point of bizarre.
 
dudalb said:
My concern is that the Democrats become defacto the only viable political party;the corruption will set in very quickly. Democracy and One Political Party systems whther it's official or de facto.. are incompatible.
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Democrats lack the party unity to pull that off. The Progressives are going to split off and do their own thing as soon as it becomes politically feasible to displace the GOP.
 
Beelzebuddy said:
Democrats lack the party unity to pull that off. The Progressives are going to split off and do their own thing as soon as it becomes politically feasible to displace the GOP.
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I mean, even if the GOP dies, conservative voters will still exist. Who knows how exactly new parties would coalesce, but so long as we have the voting system we have, a second major party will form to fill the void.
 
dudalb said:
Remember the scenes in "Casino" where the Midwest Mob's Vegas operataion begins to fall apart, the Mafia Dons panic, and begin to whack people right and left to try to cover up? I got a feeling the White House must be starting to be a little like that....
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We might be seeing Novichok in America quite soon.
 
dudalb said:
My concern is that the Democrats become defacto the only viable political party;the corruption will set in very quickly. Democracy and One Political Party systems whther it's official or de facto.. are incompatible.
And Power is a tremendous corrupter.
My best hope is that the GOP gets it butt kicked, but not enough to wreck it;just enough to teach them a lesson and let the more reasonable forces take the party back.
And if you doubt Dems can be just a corrupt as Republicans, I give you Illinois.
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It might happen, briefly. But if it does th Dems will split. They are a pretty "big tent" party after all. In fact a few of their senators are rated as more conservative than a few Good ones. The same thing happened around 1830. And, kind of in the 1930s.
 
lobosrul5 said:
We might be seeing Novichok in America quite soon.
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My impression was that the Russians seem to use different exotic poisons once one has been identified.

Possible exception of the ricin capsule shot into Georgi Markov, which had been used against a dissident in France and where the surgeon managed to remove it before a lethal dose was applied.
 
Beelzebuddy said:
Democrats lack the party unity to pull that off. The Progressives are going to split off and do their own thing as soon as it becomes politically feasible to displace the GOP.
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Progressives are not going to split from the Democrats. For the spoiler effect to not kick in, a third party will have to be a center-right or center-center party.
 
kellyb said:
Progressives are not going to split from the Democrats. For the spoiler effect to not kick in, a third party will have to be a center-right or center-center party.
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I think the idea is that it will be a second party because the GOP goes sufficiently insane that its support shrinks.

A fair number of Democrats could have policies that Nixon could have approved of
 
kellyb said:
Progressives are not going to split from the Democrats. For the spoiler effect to not kick in, a third party will have to be a center-right or center-center party.
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If there is a center-center party,I will be the first to sign up.
Tim
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
I mean, even if the GOP dies, conservative voters will still exist. Who knows how exactly new parties would coalesce, but so long as we have the voting system we have, a second major party will form to fill the void.
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Return of the Bull Moose party.

Bull Moose Party 2: Even moosier.
 
dudalb said:
Remember the scenes in "Casino" where the Midwest Mob's Vegas operataion begins to fall apart, the Mafia Dons panic, and begin to whack people right and left to try to cover up? I got a feeling the White House must be starting to be a little like that....
Click to expand...
Remember the scene in Downfall where Hitler gets the news Steiner's not coming to the rescue? Perhaps it's time for Trump's Downfall Parody - but then, who's to say some even greater betrayal won't occur? Fredo turning rat, for instance.
 
The Great Zaganza said:
I disagree: only Conservative Elites can fix the democracy deficits of the GOP.

Republicans are more or less in the same situation as the UKIP party in Britain: by their success, they have made themselves obsolete. The only program left is to prevent Democrats from rolling back their extreme policies - but that is not enough to motivate swing voters.
Republicans need to find an actual ideology to rally behind, something forward-looking instead of a just fear and fake nostalgia.
Click to expand...
Fear and fake nostalgia can carry you a long way in the U.S. of A.
 
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