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Cont: The Trump Presidency IX: Nein, Nein!

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I've mentioned in other threads that one of the things that I've been the most shocked to learn as I mature is how effective of a debate strategy being completely wrong about everything is. It leaves your opponents nothing to hold on to or framework to work in to create a counter-argument. "2+2=5" or "The Sky is Red" or "Potatoes are a fruit" can all be argued against. You can only stare with confusion and horror at somebody babbling into the black about 2+Sky equaling potato.

Trump is an odd, weird real life, action based version of this. He's oddly untouchable via doing the wrong thing... about everything. It would take an hour just to sit here and list all the things he's done wrong and all them got ignored because he turned around and... did another thing wrong. I'd be tempted to call it genius if I was ready to give him that much credit.

Trump is not a little boy reminding his mother of the time he made a hand written birthday card for her when she catches him with his hand in the cookie jar. He's a little boy that pulls down his pants and craps on the rug when you catch him with his hand in the cookie jar and to be fair... you don't really feel like worrying about the cookie in this case.

And despite the humor for affect I am being mostly serious. I think the fact that it would be nigh impossible to get everyone who opposes him to agree on what exactly the worst thing Trump has done, the thing we need to address first, has worked to his advantage.
 
TofuFighter said:
Ideally you'd like to see your president show some regret that there is such a high death toll, perhaps offer some words of comfort or assurance that every effort would be made to prevent such a thing happening again.

Instead... it's democrats lying about people dying in order to make him look bad.

It's mind boggling.
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And it probably goes without saying but this number was produced by an independent study that had nothing to do with the Democrats in congress.
 
JoeMorgue said:
Trump is a weird real world, action not words version of this. He's oddly untouchable because he's doing the wrong thing... about everything. So there's not time to focus as any one thing he's doing wrong. From the moment his campaign ramped up he's, perhaps intentionally although that might be given him too much credit, has adopted a tactic of distracting us from every wrong thing he does by doing another, often worse, wrong thing.
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Yeah it's impossible to tell if it's some sort of (stable) genius performance art, or if he's simply insane.

Instead of a kid who reminds his mother of the birthday card he hand made for her when she catches him with a hand in the cookie jar Trump is a kid that kicks the dog when his mother catches his hand in the cookie jar and to be fair... yeah that usually makes us forget about the cookie jar.
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Mother: "What are you doing with your hand in the cookie jar?"
Kid Trump: "Mom, everyone would have done this, given the chance."
Mother: "That doesn't change--"
Kid Trump: <kicks the dog>
Mother: "What was that? Apologise right now, young man!"
Kid Trump: "There you go again with your fake news."
Mother: "You just kicked the dog!"
Kid Trump: "You're just trying to blame me for your own mistakes. Where were you to protect that dog? It was the most tremendous kick in the history of kicks."
Mother: "Don't try to change the subject, Donald."
Kid Trump: "Hillary thought she could blame others for her dog-kicking, too. Tremendous win we had against her. And the electoral college always sides with the Democrats. Very hard to win."
Mother: "What?"
Kid Trump: "Biggest inauguration ever. Tremendously wet storm. Best job ever. Maybe better than Lincoln."
Mother: <Ungh> "I think I'm having a stroke!"
Kid Trump: "That would never happen to me. Best health of any kid anywhere."
 
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JoeMorgue said:
I've mentioned in other threads that one of the things that I've been the most shocked to learn as I mature is how effective of a debate strategy being completely wrong about everything is. It leaves your opponents nothing to hold on to or framework to work in to create a counter-argument. "2+2=5" or "The Sky is Red" or "Potatoes are a fruit" can all be argued against. You can only stare with confusion and horror at somebody babbling into the black about 2+Sky equaling potato.
Click to expand...

With Trump there is no common frame of reference you can work with, no set of agreed principles, facts, or assumptions to work from. Reality is whatever suits Trump right now and if he needs it to be the opposite in 5 minutes, he will switch his argument around with zero hesitation and angrily deny he ever said anything different.
 
Oh... oh my god I just got it.

We're seeing a real world, actions instead of words version of a Gish Gallop. He's argumentative concepts like "not even wrong" and "wronger than wrong" made flesh.

That's... scary. Because the only way to combat a gish gallop is to ignore it, and that's not an option in the real world.
 
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TofuFighter said:
Ideally you'd like to see your president show some regret that there is such a high death toll, perhaps offer some words of comfort or assurance that every effort would be made to prevent such a thing happening again.

Instead... it's democrats lying about people dying in order to make him look bad.

It's mind boggling.
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Unless you are a republican and then this is basic telling it like it is. That was always what they liked about him so much
 
Captain_Swoop said:
Trump Tweets

"The Wall Street Journal has it wrong, we are under no pressure to make a deal with China, they are under pressure to make a deal with us. Our markets are surging, theirs are collapsing. We will soon be taking in Billions in Tariffs & making products at home. If we meet, we meet?"
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He really thinks that China will be paying the tariffs, doesn't he? I wonder how many people have tried to explain to him that the importer pays the tariff, and he just ignored them.
 
Garrison said:
With Trump there is no common frame of reference you can work with, no set of agreed principles, facts, or assumptions to work from. Reality is whatever suits Trump right now and if he needs it to be the opposite in 5 minutes, he will switch his argument around with zero hesitation and angrily deny he ever said anything different.
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And if you show him the video of him saying it, he'll just say you edited it deliberately to make him look bad.
 
Armitage72 said:
He really thinks that China will be paying the tariffs, doesn't he? I wonder how many people have tried to explain to him that the importer pays the tariff, and he just ignored them.
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The US government will be taking in the tariffs which will translate into price rises for US consumers, unless domestic manufacturers can replace the Chinese goods with cheaper options. I suppose that's what he means.

Inflation could increase, I suppose, although probably not much. But the tarifs amount to a tax increase.
 
Anyone ever wonder how many times the rule of "1 - 2 - 3 - not it!" is employed in the White House when something serious needs to be explained to Trump? I do every day. I imagine serious news coming in and the advisers having a contest to see who has to explain a complicated matter to this simple-minded, man baby with a straight face.
 
plague311 said:
Anyone ever wonder how many times the rule of "1 - 2 - 3 - not it!" is employed in the White House when something serious needs to be explained to Trump? I do every day. I imagine serious news coming in and the advisers having a contest to see who has to explain a complicated matter to this simple-minded, man baby with a straight face.
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Many people are in the position of managing their boss, passing on the information required to get the right decision....
 
Diablo said:
The US government will be taking in the tariffs which will translate into price rises for US consumers, unless domestic manufacturers can replace the Chinese goods with cheaper options. I suppose that's what he means.

Inflation could increase, I suppose, although probably not much. But the tarifs amount to a tax increase.
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Yes, but he seems to think the Chinese will be paying that tax. It will be the importers and they will pass it on to the customer. The Chinese only suffer through lost volume. And while the US is a major export market for China, it is not the only export market for China.

I have a client who was a huge Trump supporter and his business depends on importing goods from China. he is just now starting to wonder how Trump may impact his business. I have a hard time feeling sorry for him. I also really want him to pay my bills in a timely manner. A tariff on his goods would put him out of business almost immediately and he has not found a US manufacturer for his goods despite years of looking.
 
varwoche said:
The team he assembled to cleanup rubble was the same team he sent to Hawaii to investigate Obama's birth.
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I'm pretty sure it's also the same team he sent to Puerto Rico; achieved about as much in all three instances.

Wait, that's not fair. He tossed some paper towels to someone in San Juan.
 
Dr. Keith said:
Yes, but he seems to think the Chinese will be paying that tax. It will be the importers and they will pass it on to the customer.
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And I suspect that since poor/middle class people probably spend more of their money on consumer goods that are produced in China, it will probably impact the non-wealthy disproportionately. '
The Chinese only suffer through lost volume. And while the US is a major export market for China, it is not the only export market for China.
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According to Wikipedia, China exports around 18% of its goods to the U.S. (by value). So, tariffs would hurt it.

(Although its also quite possible that other countries will start trying to rush trade deals with china and each other to counteract U.S. trade stupidity.)

I have a client who was a huge Trump supporter and his business depends on importing goods from China. he is just now starting to wonder how Trump may impact his business. I have a hard time feeling sorry for him. I also really want him to pay my bills in a timely manner. A tariff on his goods would put him out of business almost immediately and he has not found a US manufacturer for his goods despite years of looking.
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Has he thought of getting the U.S. to give him several billion dollars? It worked well for American farmers.
 
Segnosaur said:
And I suspect that since poor/middle class people probably spend more of their money on consumer goods that are produced in China, it will probably impact the non-wealthy disproportionately.
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Agreed.

According to Wikipedia, China exports around 18% of its goods to the U.S. (by value). So, tariffs would hurt it.

(Although its also quite possible that other countries will start trying to rush trade deals with china and each other to counteract U.S. trade stupidity.)
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thanks for doing the research I should have done. And yes, the world is not static. If there is additional volume available in China others will absorb some of it and take the opportunity to improve their trading relationship with China.

Has he thought of getting the U.S. to give him several billion dollars? It worked well for American farmers.
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No, but he has been touring South America looking for options.
 
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