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Cont: The Trump Presidency IX: Nein, Nein!

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Squeegee Beckenheim said:
It's being reported that the Trump administration is set today to threaten to impose sanctions against judges from the International Criminal Court, as well as prosecuting them in the US justice system, if they proceed with an investigation into alleged war crimes carried out by Americans in Afghanistan. They're also closing the PLO offices in Washington, because Palestine have attempted to have an investigation started into Israeli actions, and seeking new agreements with other nations to prevent Americans being surrendered to the court.
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Wow.
Looks like Eric Prince told Trump what to do.
 
kellyb said:
I overall like Michael Moore. :con2:
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Squeegee Beckenheim said:
He's entertaining. He's also extremely dishonest.
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Right. He constantly oversells the truth, to the point where you can't trust what he says. It's a technique I call "crying dragon", where there's an actual wolf attacking the sheep, but the boy calls it a dragon and no one shows up to help. It's counter-productive.
 
Squeegee Beckenheim said:
It's being reported that the Trump administration is set today to threaten to impose sanctions against judges from the International Criminal Court, as well as prosecuting them in the US justice system, if they proceed with an investigation into alleged war crimes carried out by Americans in Afghanistan. They're also closing the PLO offices in Washington, because Palestine have attempted to have an investigation started into Israeli actions, and seeking new agreements with other nations to prevent Americans being surrendered to the court.
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Is the ICC being an illegitimate court a core tenet of conservative ideology?
 
uke2se said:
Is the ICC being an illegitimate court a core tenet of conservative ideology?
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Anything that is run by fariners is illegitimate to conservatives. Except for Russia, they love Russia now.

Actually, I'm wrong. Any court that makes a decision they don't like is illegitimate to them.
 
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thaiboxerken said:
Anything that is run by fariners is illegitimate to conservatives. Except for Russia, they love Russia now.

Actually, I'm wrong. Any court that makes a decision they don't like is illegitimate to them.
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The reason I ask is the apparent venom in Bolton's description of the court. Is he afraid he might be indicted?
 
uke2se said:
Is the ICC being an illegitimate court a core tenet of conservative ideology?
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Remember when SCOTUS makes a decision unpopular with the GOP? In those instances, it's unelected judges ignoring the will of muh people! And then they stack the court with conservative judges to ignore the will of the people, because so long as they do what they want, it's ok.

They don't care about legitimacy. Only power.
 
Babbylonian said:
I don't think South Korea can publicly express how they feel about this. The United States is literally the line between them and Seoul being devastated within hours by artillery fire (setting aside the possibility of NK nukes being utilized). It's beyond disturbing that any elected official, let alone the one occupying the Oval Office, would consider damaging our relationship with South Korea in a transparent effort to cozy up to North Korea. I mean, damn, talk about not in the US interest! North Korea has nothing we need or want.
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It has something Trump wants though, a mark at being a great statesman for getting north korea to negotiate. And of course Kim is the kind of strong leader he personally admires.
 
Aridas said:
I've seen calls for impeachment, but they're quite far from daily, and, generally speaking, not from people who have any significant power to do so. Slings and Arrows choice to point towards Breitbart isn't particularly convincing to me, regardless, given Breitbart's quality.
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Shhhh! Dem leaders don't want to say 'impeach.'

"A majority of Democratic voters want President Donald Trump impeached.

"But, of course, Democratic leaders want nothing to do with this conversation, even as Trump and his allies frantically try to bait them into it.

"Each party's posture is understandable when you consider the earth-shaking upheaval that ensued the last time a full-fledged impeachment drive was launched on the eve of an election."

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/do...s-don-t-want-say-impeach-bill-clinton-n907906 (Sept 10, 2018)
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
I think you are confusing Fahrenheit 9/11 with Loose Change. Moore's documentary is about GW's move to use 911 for an excuse to invade Iraq. Moore isn't a Truther. And the 911 movie includes criticism of Bush letting bin Laden go.

I fear this is about as far off topic as we can go in this thread.
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risk noted.

I didn't mean to say Moore was a truther in any sense.

We'll see what 11/9 has on the Trump presidency.
 
The Norseman said:
That's very true; Democrats actually, you know, read books and stuff for one thing. The other is that white supremacy and Nazis generally tend to fall into the same sort of authoritarian mindset that Republicans share so it's probably harder to distinguish one from the other very easily.
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And don't choose the candidate who says things like hitler was right about the jews. That kind of attitude wins republican primaries.
 
LSSBB said:
It's a national sovereignty tenet going back to anti-U.N., or even anti-League of Nations, feelings.

Plus the whole Mark of the Beast garbage and Millenialists from the Bible Thumper wing. Europe is in league with Satan, you know.
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And of course the whole thing that we can't hold our boys accountable for the war crimes they commit while only following orders. And we can not hold the leadership accountable for only issuing illegal orders. Basicly torture is great is a pretty core republican ideal for a while. So any organization that would hold our torturers accountable is bad.
 
Roger Ramjets said:
Moore's documentaries are manipulative, but quite obviously so. If it took you a while to realize that then you are probably still being manipulated by others that are less obvious.
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Touche :p . Even when watching his films things jumped out at me of course, but I needed Manufactured Dissent for facts like "the vault with the guns was actually x hundred miles away".
 
ponderingturtle said:
And of course the whole thing that we can't hold our boys accountable for the war crimes they commit while only following orders. And we can not hold the leadership accountable for only issuing illegal orders. Basicly torture is great is a pretty core republican ideal for a while. So any organization that would hold our torturers accountable is bad.
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That's the National Sovereignty thing.
 
Squeegee Beckenheim said:
Let me provide a link to a page about Bowling For Columbine. This is not exhaustive by any means, either in terms of cataloguing all the ways in which that film is dishonest nor in terms of it being the only dishonest product from Moore, it is instead an example of his typical MO. Another fun thing to try is to read his books, read the references and sources at the end, and see if they actually say what he claims they do. And so on. Do any fact checking, and you'll find exactly this kind of dishonesty over and over again.

Moore is entertaining. He's also extremely dishonest.
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My favourite obvious one from Columbine is when he first cites actual statistics of murder rates in the US, and then asks people on the street in Canada how many people are killed there each year until he finds some guy who is clueless enough to go "er, five?", and then proceeds to use that. I don't know if too many audience members walk away thinking only five people were murdered in a year in a nation as big as Canada, and everyone already knows way more people are killed in the US than in Canada, but to me it's an illustration of Moore's lazy/uncaring relationship to facts and sources.

My favourite from F9/11, meanwhile, is when he wonders why lighters are allowed on planes, and then shows footage of cigarettes being made while he says smugly, "I guess someone told them that when smokers get off planes, they want to light up cigarettes right away, so don't take their lighters away".

Yes, children, you no longer need evidence to argue something. Next time you have to write a school essay, you can just claim the Roman empire fell because of cigarette companies, just open your explanation with "I guess" :rolleyes: .
 
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