DeAtley came out with about $300,000 before signing off his rights to Roger in 1969. Up to now doesn't really matter as it doesn't get to the heart of who, how and when the suit was made.
Speaking on the suit -- I remember some years ago you were going to check out some type of rumor about a suit being in DeAtleys home. What ever came from all that if anything?
I would venture to guess that since 1969 the film has grossed more than that. Most likely a lot more. Does anyone know the status of Rogers wife these days?
DeAtley came out with about $300,000 before signing off his rights to Roger in 1969. Up to now doesn't really matter as it doesn't get to the heart of who, how and when the suit was made.
I could tell you in mind-numbing detail about what I pieced together of what he was doing, with much of the original legwork done by Greg Long, and then later by interviewing the people I think he did not properly follow up on in Yakima who were still alive around 2010. But I can spare a lot of textbergs and reading time with what is most critical.
What was Roger Patterson doing with Al DeAtley between May and October 1967? What DeAtley has gone on record about this period of time is utter lies.
1 - When exactly did Patterson and DeAtley visit Ray Wallace in Toledo, WA and why?
2 - Why did DeAtley know Bob Heironimus through Patterson, enough that he could describe him physically decades later?
3 - Heironimus confronted DeAtley at a 1970 Waylon Jennings concert at the Saddle Tree club in Yakima. This is something that actually happened. Why?
There are many other questions and activities by Patterson of what he was doing and with who. The money trail, why he swindled Vilma Radford, but it always comes back to DeAtley and Patterson between May and October 1967.
As of May, as the spring filming ground to a halt, let us assume that RP decided he had to film a Bigfoot.
What he did next was to assemble the needed resources: People, money, skills, suit, location, on and on... you name it. That is what he did. He is the project manager. He started with nothing. By The first of October he thought he was ready. Quite a job.
Begin.
...OK, now we understanding each other perfectly. My use of Woods & Wildmen is a pop culture based reference meant to allow anyone with anyone with a western schema that experienced the 80's to quickly have a grasp on the nature of Bigfootery as a social phenomenon. What you guys are using now is more accurate and clinical...
I like "Woods and Wildmen". It has a much, much longer history. BLAARGing is also good and pretty accurate. Might I suggest that it is actually a cultural/historical mash up of both? Welcome back, KK. The PGF thread lives!
I like "Woods and Wildmen". It has a much, much longer history. BLAARGing is also good and pretty accurate. Might I suggest that it is actually a cultural/historical mash up of both? Welcome back, KK. The PGF thread lives!
I have never really bought into the game playing idea. Maybe I’m too old.
Let me get this straight...are you saying the usual weekend bigfooter who belongs to the Southern waxahachie state Bigfoot organization and goes to two conventions a year doesn’t believe Bigfoot is real in the usual meaning of “believe?” The guys who chant “lock him up” about Bob H really don’t believe in Bigfoot?
I am much more in the cult and Josh Buhs camp, I think.
Of course there are the profiteers who really are agnostic; they just want to sell stuff.
I have never really bought into the game playing idea. Maybe I’m too old.
Let me get this straight...are you saying the usual weekend bigfooter who belongs to the Southern waxahachie state Bigfoot organization and goes to two conventions a year doesn’t believe Bigfoot is real in the usual meaning of “believe?” The guys who chant “lock him up” about Bob H really don’t believe in Bigfoot?
I am much more in the cult and Josh Buhs camp, I think.
Of course there are the profiteers who really are agnostic; they just want to sell stuff.
Every con needs a rube. Figure out which ones are the conmen, and which are the rubes. (believers) The "pros" have something to sell, and the rubes are buying. That should help.
I have this vision where Sweaty walks into a talent agency, pulls out a projector and presents his amazing technicolor ape show and after the last slide drops off the wall he turns and goes THE ARISTOCRATS!!!!!!
You mean BLAARGing? What about Woods and Wildmen? That goes back a long way. As a concept, it dovetails with a sort of game and "belief" thing that's as old as the hills.
...Let me get this straight...are you saying the usual weekend bigfooter who belongs to the Southern waxahachie state Bigfoot organization and goes to two conventions a year doesn’t believe Bigfoot is real in the usual meaning of “believe?” The guys who chant “lock him up” about Bob H really don’t believe in Bigfoot?...
There is a cultish thing at play also. These things aren't mutually exclusive. It's a weird mix of ingredients. I'm more inclined to look at it as a Liars Club. Belief by some feeds the game and helps keep the structure together. But, mostly it's about the b*******. Woods and Wildmen works best for my money.
I have this vision where Sweaty walks into a talent agency, pulls out a projector and presents his amazing technicolor ape show and after the last slide drops off the wall he turns and goes THE ARISTOCRATS!!!!!!
Unfortunately, it depends on the assumption that Sweaty is able to actually face and speak with people about Bigfoot who are not card carrying Woods & Wildmen players. Good luck with that.
There is a cultish thing at play also. These things aren't mutually exclusive. It's a weird mix of ingredients. I'm more inclined to look at it as a Liars Club. Belief by some feeds the game and helps keep the structure together. But, mostly it's about the b*******. Woods and Wildmen works best for my money.
People, all of us, are tempted to think in black and white terms so as to feel they've encapsulated a concept mentally and move on to the next thing to comprehend.
But that's not really thinking things through. It's shades of grey.
I was a five alarm Bigfoot believer. I really, really believed. If I am truly accurate, really, really wanted to believe. Bigfoot is real? Where do I sign? Krantz's Big Footprints a Scientific Inquiry was my Bible and pity the fool that would go for long drives up island with me on Vancouver Island when I was a young man. I would have that book in the car and would not shut up. The notion that that humble, rustic and wild place we grew up contained a secret so fantastic that it boggled the mind was far too enticing, too mysterious.
Anyone remember the commercials for the Time-Life books series Mysteries of the Unknown? You know, the one you had to read to believe? I'll jog your memory...
My best friend actually ordered that series when I was a teenager. That hunger for the unknown was like a fire under our butts. What could be more healthy than that in growing young people?
And then we go camping.
Guess what I'm shushing people and hoping is out there in the darkness?
Woods & Wildmen as I call it, BLAARGing, it's all essentially addressing one common human behaviour. Wink, wink make believe. I deeply wanted Bigfoot to be real and on the island I grew up on. Now I'm 41 and Hokkaido is my home and if I'm shushing people when we are camping it's because I'm being mindful of brown bears which are everywhere. Want to know some crazy history? Google the Sankebetsu brown bear incident.
A world in which Bigfoot is really, really real is so romantic and so enticing that plenty of people will don the camouflage and drink the Kool-aid. Do they actually believe, really want to believe, know better but pretend to believe to join the camprfire?
Shades of grey.
Woods & Wildmen is, like captain koolaid said, as old the hills.
I've said it for years that I felt Roger and at least some other prominent Footers actually did have a belief in Bigfoot to some extent. It's not hard for me to believe that some people actually do think he's out there, cheekily tossing licorice at unwary campers in the vast woodlands of big cities. After all, some people believe in all manner of weird things, some of 'em even believe that U2 are a good band and that Bono is a great vocalist.
Now, here is a kind of a new twist.
It is interesting that Jim McClarin and John Green seem to have first seen the film at different times at DeAtleys.
....Jim and Rene took a bus to the McKinleyville Airport and flew, then bused, to Yakima, that day, arriving in the evening. Someone picked them up at the bus station and took them to DeAtley’s house. Again, this was Saturday night, October 21. At DeAtleys they went to the basement where there were several other people (including two women) none of whom Jim knew. Jim had visited Roger in the the spring, stayed at the Patterson home and thus certainly knew Roger very well. He consistently and with certainty says he did not see Patterson at DeAtleys (he did not see Roger until the UBC showings). Of course, Roger could NOT have been there the evening of the 21st, as he and Gimlin were still on the road, having set off from Orleans late that morning. Jim did not know Green at that time though he had corresponded with him, and he does not recall meeting Green at that time. Jim and Rene later hooked up with Green to get a ride up to BC.
Green’s account indicates that he arrived Sunday, October 22, and waited on the main floor of DeAtleys house until Roger arrived. Only after Roger went down and saw the film was he (Green) allowed to go to the basement. Gimlin of course did not show up. This has been accepted as the time and date when the PGF first went “public.” But I think it really happened the night before. I do not at the moment know where Jim and Rene spent the night (possibly with one of the other guests) but Rene (who may have stayed at DeAtleys) seems to have returned the next morning while Jim, like Gimlin, slept in. This would account for both Green and Dahinden recalling Roger’s presence.
Kk
I happened to see your old post on the identity of the Lucky Seven who saw the film before UBC. You suggested that Gimlin and Mrs. Patterson were among them. Mrs. Patterson could not have been there Saturday night as Jim would have recognized her. Green and Dahinden also knew her. Rogers arrival was noted by them, but there was no mention of Pat. Gimlin could not have been there Saturday night and was definitely not there Sunday. The two mystery viewers were a man and woman; I speculate they were friends of the DeAtleys, “Saturday Night movies”. I don’t think processing techs would have been counted as having “seen” it. Given the short window that they had to take the film away to have it copied and then get up to Vancouver I doubt either Gimlin or Pat were deemed worthy of a special showing.
We know that Patterson showed the film to friends in his home sometime later but that involved more than two additional people.
Btw the image of Hodgsons store in Murphy’s book is wrong. It shows the later failed version of his business, the Department Store, on the other side of the road, not the Variety Store of 1967.
There is definitely a cult component to Blaarging.
While they may not believe in Bigfoot, once they get into the Believer group, there is a definite pull to keep the story going.
They want to believe so badly, that they will literally hallucinate Bigfoot evidence.
When you are with 6 Hardcore Bigfooters, who probably think Bigfoot isn't real, but are really trying to prove reality wrong, there will be mind-play(hallucinations? wishful thinking? Confirmation Bias?). A sound of a deer crunching through some brush is clearly bipedal footfalls. An owl blinking in the flashlight glare is clearly a Bigfoot swaying , and it's eyes are at 9feet off the ground.
You want to be part of that, you let your mind go to that place where you can see it too.
Same as a snipe hunt. When you find out it is a trick, you want to outdo the people who tricked you, you actually pretend it is real for the next generation of dupes.
My brother in law knows wrestling is fake, but he treats it like it's real. The kayfabe is part of the reality of wrestling. He will laugh when they make a mistake, he will cheer when they do a move that is amazing. He doesn't care. he will tell you what the wrestlers are saying and doing on the mat.
Example: Most of the time when you see a ref yelling at a wrestler, he is determining if the wrestler was injured on the last move, and if so, buying time for him to recover for the next move.
Speaking on the suit -- I remember some years ago you were going to check out some type of rumor about a suit being in DeAtleys home. What ever came from all that if anything?
I would venture to guess that since 1969 the film has grossed more than that. Most likely a lot more. Does anyone know the status of Rogers wife these days?
I found this statement about the first viewing, from Murphy’s Bigfoot Film Journal but as usual his sourcing is unknown, and so far I can’t find substantiation elsewhere. He says Green was the first to arrive on Sunday in the early afternoon. Then:
Dahinden and McClarin arrived at Al De Atley's home at about 3:00 p.m. the same day (Sunday, October 22, 1967). Upon their arrival, Patterson showed the film to all present and the group discussed how Patterson and Gimlin should go forward with the new evidence. Patterson did not show the group the general movie footage he had taken (i.e., the first 76-feet of the first roll). Nor did he show the other footage on the second roll if he did, in fact, have the developed roll. Nevertheless, the film of the creature apparently impressed the researchers. Nothing appeared to indicate that Patterson and Gimlin were being untruthful.
Btw this Skeptoid piece by Brian Dunning is now five years old, seems to be laden with factual errors. One or two I can understand but there are like ten. Of course it wouldn’t sway a bleever anyway. https://skeptoid.com/episodes/4375
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