Bigfoot: The Patterson Gimlin Film - Part 5

You are underestimating the power of cognitive dissonance.
Their worldview is so intertwined with Bigfoot, that they literally hallucinate things that support the existence of Bigfoot.

They are so far down the rabbit hole, of pretending it exists, that it actually begins to exist to them. A parent has no problem lying with a straight face to their kid that Santa is real, or Jesus will protect them.

So very true, Drew. But none of the "Four Horsemen" every claimed to encounter or witness Bigfoot directly. And yet they genuinely believed the such creatures existed.

The power of cognitive dissonance is powerful indeed as we all know here. But not so strong that it ever made Green, Dahinden, Byrne or Krantz put on the Woods & Wildmen "Knower" asshat.
 
I think if we could get footage of The Joey Bishop Show in which Roger appeared in 1967 and The Merv Griffin Show as well in 1968 that it could prove helpful. Anything of Roger himself speaking about the film...

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2213895/?ref_=nm_flmg_slf_4

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2152575/?ref_=nm_flmg_slf_2

Here is the episode, I don't have an account so I can't see if it's legit
https://netflixs.club/?q=The Joey Bishop Show (Talk Show) s02 e28&p=0

Season 2 episode 28
 
So very true, Drew. But none of the "Four Horsemen" every claimed to encounter or witness Bigfoot directly. And yet they genuinely believed the such creatures existed.

The power of cognitive dissonance is powerful indeed as we all know here. But not so strong that it ever made Green, Dahinden, Byrne or Krantz put on the Woods & Wildmen "Knower" asshat.

None of them saw it, but they could all tell you stories of people with unimpeachable integrity who claim to have seen it.

I've never seen Santa Claus, but I can tell you I've heard his sleigh on the roof top with hoof sounds.
 
Sure, and those stories, gong show footprints, and blurry films made believers of them. Was that right? It did the same to me. But I was a child and later young man. I realized when to put down and back away from the Kool-Aid. But they didn't go so far down the rabbit hole that they started seeing things that weren't there, as so many in Woods & Wildmen do. Look at MABRC. I feel just a head shaking pity that these fools can't step into the nearest wooded area in Okla-fricking-homa without having "An Approach."

Main point, those "Four Horsemen" have all but one passed from this world having spent what we could argue for or against was a futile life searching for something that was never there to begin with. They never claimed to see it. Their Kool-Aid was not that strong.

Did they waste their lives? I don't think so. That's a topic for another thread, though.
 
You got everybody just all over these obviously fake flat straight tracks...

Wallace must have been rolling on the floor giggling.

https://www.sasquatchcanada.com/uploads/9/4/5/1/945132/__1327463_orig.jpg

https://www.sasquatchcanada.com/uploads/9/4/5/1/945132/1406943_orig.jpg

https://www.sasquatchcanada.com/uploads/9/4/5/1/945132/__8099238_orig.jpg

https://www.sasquatchcanada.com/uploads/9/4/5/1/945132/_7509971_orig.jpg

The fake tracks appear to be in straight line groups of three or four. 1,2,3,4 then shift direction a little. 1,2,3,4 shift direction a little. 1,2,3,4 shift direction a little.
 
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...Main point, those "Four Horsemen" have all but one passed from this world having spent what we could argue for or against was a futile life searching for something that was never there to begin with. They never claimed to see it. Their Kool-Aid was not that strong.

Did they waste their lives? I don't think so. That's a topic for another thread, though.
If you say their Kool-Aid was not that strong, what does that mean exactly? Did they, Green in particular, truly and wholly believe in Bigfoot? He presented himself to you as a 'true believer'. Read any of his books and he absolutely is one. But was he really? What I can't wrap my head around is how a seeming intelligent, aware, thoughtful sort like Green could possess 100% belief 100% of the time through those many years all the way up to his death. At no time in those say 60+ years of his 'looking and not finding', he never once questioned the whole premise? Or had serious reservations about any of the so-called Bigfoot evidence? Bob H. and all the stories didn't sway him in any way? He held fast to the idea the entire time no matter the facts? So impossible to believe.

I could never be convinced that everyone who (deliberately) goes to church on Sunday genuinely believes in the lord thy god. They're not necessarily atheists, liberals or New Yorkers, they just don't/can't believe in god as he's preached. Yet, if you could somehow find and cull those very specific people from the congregation on any one Sunday and simply ask them 'Do you believe in Jesus H. Christ?', serious money says all of them would say YES and none of them would confess their hypocrisy. They're already in so deep, one more lie isn't going to hurt them.


ETA: To help my poorly written first paragraph, I think Green knew there is no Bigfoot a long time ago.


You can't possibly think that John Green sat there on that roadside, and thought these were real prints made by a real creature...

I mean look at that guy squatting there next to those fat flat footprints in a straight line.
A fool? no, a fooler? yes.

http://bigfootbooksblog.blogspot.com/2014/03/the-problem-of-ray-wallace-hoax-tracks.html
The fact the tracks are on the "soft shoulder" instead of the main (more compacted) road seems a huge red flag. Yet, of course they're on the "soft shoulder" because fake prints wouldn't show up nearly as well on the road. Obviously the unique context wasn't their worry.

You got everybody just all over these obviously fake flat straight tracks...

Wallace must have been rolling on the floor giggling.

The fake tracks appear to be in straight line groups of three or four. 1,2,3,4 then shift direction a little. 1,2,3,4 shift direction a little. 1,2,3,4 shift direction a little.
As you point out, even 50 years later in old B&W pictures it's SO ******* OBVIOUS what was going on. Those tracks have no dynamics or life to them whatsoever. Yet they look exactly like what stiff wood stompers would do. I also think most anyone could go out and re-create that same scene and do it with relative ease. "Tape measure, check. Camera, check. Stompers, check. Let's go." Hey make sure you use the soft shoulder - where no bipedal hominid would normally walk - for a better impression. :wink:
 
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....That makes 7, as Green said, with two women, as Jim recalls. All the people who saw it with Jim on Saturday night were strangers to him except Rene. All the people who saw it with Green on Sunday were believers (or in Al’s case, pretended to be one).

That’s how the Believers and the Non-Believers all got across the river safely.

The upshot of all this is that the purported time window in which the film could have gotten to some airport, be delivered to Al DeAtley in Yakima, was gotten to some theoretical pirate processing, got processed and got back to DeAtleys house just got shorter by maybe 16hrs.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming.
 
Did Roger actually believe in Bigfoot? Yes, I think he did.

I'm injured and about to disappear off-grid for a little bit, weather is bad but I have to get a road to a building site punched in before freeze-up.

You put some really fine stuff out for me and I want to give it it's due consideration, thank you very much. Might even get some in tonight.

But I am glad we get to exchange on this. You take care.
 
I started to refer to Bigfootery in general as Woods & Wildmen. A hilarious adult roleplaying game in which people indoctrinate themselves like Scientologists with a set of absurd beliefs. BLAARGing is the way you refer to it now.

I'd like to start with terminology because then neither of us misunderstands the use of it.

I think that's a great name - Woods and Wildmen. What we started to do in your absence was start following conventions for naming activities like these, to wit:

Live Action Role Playing. LARPing.

Your description of woods and wildmen is no different from what I saw the Society for Creative Anachronism doing: dressing up in ancient garb and armaments; acting out roles like rescuing damsels in distress or re-creation of battles and so forth. Harmless stuff. W&W or SCA both. As described.

And when someone playing Woods and Wildmen or SCA encounters someone else who doesn't LARP, what do they say?

The people in the SCA did their LARPing at the same park I played frisbee golf on. I was on the first state championship Iowa frisbee golf team so we were out practicing all the time and so was the SCA.

They were fun people, and told us what they were up to. You had drama and band type people doing that sort of thing. They didn't try to convince me they really were in the 15th century, and that they really were at war. Role Playing. LARPing.

Your description of BLAARGing will be forgiven out of diplomacy but let's not try to use emotional manipulation in our rhetoric please. When you do your best to put the most pejorative connotation on a description it is the straw man, not coming to an understanding of a position.

There is a great deal of differene between Alternate Reality Gaming and LARPing. And it is here I ask for your concentration upon and acknowledgment of:

Alternate Reality Gaming is defined by the refusal to acknowledge that it is a game.

Unless we not only agree upon that as the difference between LARPing and BLAARGing, there is no point in discussing it. Because it is not just some little inconsequential matter. It is the entire matter.

My acquaintances doing Society for Creative Anachronism "skits" pretended, among themselves, that they were in the 15th century. But to the exterior world they were honest about what they were doing.

A skeptical mind can take upon itself a premise it does not actually agree to for purposes of argument.

Do so. BLAARGers are defined by the principle of refusing to acknowledge they are playing a game.

Nobody here says 100% of every person who ever said they believed were lying ******* serial killers. Please no emotionally charged straw men, this is a science we are applying here: the distinction between Woods and Wildmen, LARPing, vs. BLAARGing.

A reasonable person would concede that some people are true believers, having stumbled into a harem of bigfoot hotties posing as a strip club. He believes for many years, the peer pressure you know.

Then some are LARPing, some BLAARGing.

I assure our moderators that this is an important insight into the PGF, and in fact the motivation of the PGF is BLAARging for profit. Roger refused to acknowledge it was a hoax. He did it for profit. Or did he donate all that money to charity? Charity Yong Ho, in Bangkok lol.

Take care.
 
I'm injured and about to disappear off-grid for a little bit, weather is bad but I have to get a road to a building site punched in before freeze-up.

You put some really fine stuff out for me and I want to give it it's due consideration, thank you very much. Might even get some in tonight.

But I am glad we get to exchange on this. You take care.

Smooth recovery over there in Alaska, that giant expanse of north country about 2/3 of the 9000ish km between here in Hokkaido and my BC where I grew up. I've flown over you more times than I can count and never once touched down. Mean to fix that one day.

We're turning fall up in the North here while the rest of Japan is still in heat wave. Look forward to a continuing exchange. Main point, as a former believer, one who came to my senses when I saw Woods & Wildmen roleplaying around me, you can't dismiss the entirety of people who believe as BLAARGing dopes. I had wrong information. Came hear 12 years ago. Learned and changed. That's the short version.
 
You can't possibly think that John Green sat there on that roadside, and thought these were real prints made by a real creature...

I mean look at that guy squatting there next to those fat flat footprints in a straight line.
A fool? no, a fooler? yes.

http://bigfootbooksblog.blogspot.com...ax-tracks.html
The fact the tracks are on the "soft shoulder" instead of the main (more compacted) road seems a huge red flag. Yet, of course they're on the "soft shoulder" because fake prints wouldn't show up nearly as well on the road. Obviously the unique context wasn't their worry.

Having read most of their stuff and listened to them talk, I think Patterson and Green were both convinced believers.

No one is a true believer from birth. People get there in stages and in different ways. The spores of bigfootery are out there floating around and they land on everyone. In most of us the spores germinate but they don’t flourish. Most of us have a tiny bit of suspension of disbelief but we contain it. We have several different defenses like a human immune system. Some of these require experience with a threat in order to be armed against the next invader. The immune defense system requires good general health. Finally, if one is continually heavily exposed to an invader eventually the defenses may fail by the sheer weight of the attack. I defy any one of you to read all the reports (hundreds mind you) that were dumped in Greens lap, for example, and not find yourself thinking, at some level you are ashamed of, that there might be something to it.

My point is that belief in Bigfoot implies a breakdown in one or more of a handful of ways in which the majority of people defend against the majority of ********.

Green and Patterson were quite different people who became convinced because of different flaws in their ******** defenses.

Two interesting cases that we have seen go down the rabbit hole in the last 15 years : I think Gimlin is convinced in his mind as well, even tho he, like Patterson, knew there was fakery going on. His failed defenses are pretty obvious: an old man who never did anything noteworthy and lived off his wife, suddenly getting incredible attention, and hundreds of people telling him Bigfoot is real. Meldrum is a fascinating example whose utter breakdown didn’t become obvious until the Todd Standing affairs.
 
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ABP
I have always wanted to operate heavy equipment. Is that acting out sexual drives/fantasies?

Naturally speaking, some of us are more equipped than others. No need to act, when real life is much cooler than movies. (friend from photoshoot the other day)

Someone should've told Patterson that. He could've saved himself a trip to Bangkok. Does anyone have a rough estimate as to how much he grossed from the film in total? (before, and up to date after his death)
 
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Kk
What was RP doing in the summer/fall of 67? An excellent question. The best way to approach to that might be “who and what was he doing it with...”
 
I'd like to start with terminology because then neither of us misunderstands the use of it.

I think that's a great name - Woods and Wildmen. What we started to do in your absence was start following conventions for naming activities like these, to wit:

Live Action Role Playing. LARPing.

Your description of woods and wildmen is no different from what I saw the Society for Creative Anachronism doing: dressing up in ancient garb and armaments; acting out roles like rescuing damsels in distress or re-creation of battles and so forth. Harmless stuff. W&W or SCA both. As described.

And when someone playing Woods and Wildmen or SCA encounters someone else who doesn't LARP, what do they say?

The people in the SCA did their LARPing at the same park I played frisbee golf on. I was on the first state championship Iowa frisbee golf team so we were out practicing all the time and so was the SCA.

They were fun people, and told us what they were up to. You had drama and band type people doing that sort of thing. They didn't try to convince me they really were in the 15th century, and that they really were at war. Role Playing. LARPing.

Just an aside, but this is a discussion forum. I've played frisbee golf for over twenty years. I started playing while on tour in my band Velvet and on excellent courses we have on Vancouver Island and then I brought it with me to Japan and introduced it at Yoyogi Park in Tokyo. I'm as passionate about it as golfers are about golf. Nothing competitive, but I love it nearly as much as tennis.

We understand each other about the terminology. I don't say woods and wildmen, I have a specific title, Woods & Wildmen. The way I write it is intentional to compare it to Dungeons & Dragons. I'm intentionally relating it to the socially awkward and often obsessive tabletop roleplaying culture from the 80's that is lovingly portrayed in the Netflix series Stranger Things. It's a pop culture reference that most of all is meant to highlight the role-playing nature and socially awkward aspect of the people engaging in it.

Your comparison is better, because by and large, Dungeons & Dragons is a fantastic activity in which the players are not wink wink pretending they are battling actual dragons and ogres. Anderson Cooper is a D&Der, of all people.

Bigfooters gather together at conventions and "expeditions" many of them in various forms of poor health and obesity, absurdly gearing up in camouflage as if that is going to make their Boss of the Woods have a harder time detecting them, and pretending amongst themselves there are really, really real Bigfoots just out there, maybe over there, did you hear that? Everybody shush! And they're in Oklahoma, Ohio, Iowa, among more traditional Bigfoot haunts.

Seriously, Iowa.

The need is so great to gather and nerd out and bond with their Boss of the Woods cult behaviour, that Iowa is fine. Come on, there are trees. Give a gaggle of Bigfooters a decently wooded area in anywhere USA and they will gather, and eat, and drink, and shush, and did you hear that, and collectively wink wink do the best they can to give each other goosebumps.

Your description of BLAARGing will be forgiven out of diplomacy but let's not try to use emotional manipulation in our rhetoric please. When you do your best to put the most pejorative connotation on a description it is the straw man, not coming to an understanding of a position.

There is a great deal of differene between Alternate Reality Gaming and LARPing. And it is here I ask for your concentration upon and acknowledgment of:

Alternate Reality Gaming is defined by the refusal to acknowledge that it is a game.

Unless we not only agree upon that as the difference between LARPing and BLAARGing, there is no point in discussing it. Because it is not just some little inconsequential matter. It is the entire matter.

My acquaintances doing Society for Creative Anachronism "skits" pretended, among themselves, that they were in the 15th century. But to the exterior world they were honest about what they were doing.

A skeptical mind can take upon itself a premise it does not actually agree to for purposes of argument.

Do so. BLAARGers are defined by the principle of refusing to acknowledge they are playing a game.

Nobody here says 100% of every person who ever said they believed were lying ******* serial killers. Please no emotionally charged straw men, this is a science we are applying here: the distinction between Woods and Wildmen, LARPing, vs. BLAARGing.

A reasonable person would concede that some people are true believers, having stumbled into a harem of bigfoot hotties posing as a strip club. He believes for many years, the peer pressure you know.

Then some are LARPing, some BLAARGing.

I assure our moderators that this is an important insight into the PGF, and in fact the motivation of the PGF is BLAARging for profit. Roger refused to acknowledge it was a hoax. He did it for profit. Or did he donate all that money to charity? Charity Yong Ho, in Bangkok lol.

Take care.

OK, now we understanding each other perfectly. My use of Woods & Wildmen is a pop culture based reference meant to allow anyone with anyone with a western schema that experienced the 80's to quickly have a grasp on the nature of Bigfootery as a social phenomenon. What you guys are using now is more accurate and clinical. I often write and communicate in a pop culture way because as a performer and artist, it's what's most familiar to me.

We are in full agreement that what the majority of Bigfooters engage in is Alternate Reality Gaming. They know better, they can think for themselves that no, that pile of sticks is not an offering, and it's 2018 and there is no reliable evidence of Bigfoot ever, but Smores are good and beer is good and being with other humans who don't do so well in mainstream society but all really, really like Bigfoot is great. So, shush, you heard that, right?
 
Kk
What was RP doing in the summer/fall of 67? An excellent question. The best way to approach to that might be “who and what was he doing it with...”

Agreed.

I could tell you in mind-numbing detail about what I pieced together of what he was doing, with much of the original legwork done by Greg Long, and then later by interviewing the people I think he did not properly follow up on in Yakima who were still alive around 2010. But I can spare a lot of textbergs and reading time with what is most critical.

What was Roger Patterson doing with Al DeAtley between May and October 1967? What DeAtley has gone on record about this period of time is utter lies.

1 - When exactly did Patterson and DeAtley visit Ray Wallace in Toledo, WA and why?

2 - Why did DeAtley know Bob Heironimus through Patterson, enough that he could describe him physically decades later?

3 - Heironimus confronted DeAtley at a 1970 Waylon Jennings concert at the Saddle Tree club in Yakima. This is something that actually happened. Why?

There are many other questions and activities by Patterson of what he was doing and with who. The money trail, why he swindled Vilma Radford, but it always comes back to DeAtley and Patterson between May and October 1967.
 
Does anyone have a rough estimate as to how much he grossed from the film in total? (before, and up to date after his death)

DeAtley came out with about $300,000 before signing off his rights to Roger in 1969. Up to now doesn't really matter as it doesn't get to the heart of who, how and when the suit was made.
 

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