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John McCain Diagnosed With Brain Cancer

 
Regnad Kcin said:
Holy all that is holy...

Flags at White House back at full staff
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angrysoba said:
I don’t know what the protocol is, but is this actually a major thing? To bring back the Diana comparison, when she ended up splatted in a Paris tunnel, a lot of people rent their garments at the sight of the flag at full staff on Buckingham Palace. They were convinced that the Queen ought to be flying it at half mast and bawling her eyes out on TV. This is despite the fact that Diana was already divorced from Prince Charles.
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Seems I reacted too hastily. I can’t post the link at the moment, but apparently it’s accepted protocol to fly the flag at half staff on the day of death plus one for a member of Congress. My error.
 
angrysoba said:
I don’t know what the protocol is, but is this actually a major thing?
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from the article:
U.S. Flag Code states that flags be lowered “on the day of death and the following day for a Member of Congress.”
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add to that the fact that McCain has served in the Military and you can be certain that for many people this is indeed a major thing.
 
Regnad Kcin said:
Seems I reacted too hastily. I can’t post the link at the moment, but apparently it’s accepted protocol to fly the flag at half staff on the day of death plus one for a member of Congress. My error.
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It’s okay!

I had a look into it, and yes it appears that the WH followed protocol by taking it down at midnight after the day after McCain’s death. However, maybe predictably some media outlets are outraged that Trump didn’t follow “precedent” by keeping the flag at half mast until McCain’s burial. Apparently Obama specifically requested this at the White House and embassies after Ted Kennedy died.

I think this sort of thing is what leads to outrage fatigue, to be honest. Who seriously gives a crap that Trump is not going the extra mile for McCain when it is already known that such actions would be unwelcome? I accidentally saw Trump’s tweet about McCain on Facebook and it was being proudly displayed alongside a response saying “how dare you even speak his name! **** You!”

“Talk about McCain! How dare you talk about him! Stop ignoring McCain!” Is the current narrative.
 
TragicMonkey said:
Seriously? I understand the cultural taboo on speaking ill of the dead, but all this lionization is going to far. 'Honor and integrity'? 'Keating Five'. Have we really reached the stage where corruption and theft don't even register?
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He was never proven to have done anything wrong, and he was never disciplined by Congress or charged with anything. Considering what we see every day from Trump and his greedy crew, something McCain did or didn't do 30+ years ago is what doesn't even register.
 
Bob001 said:
He was never proven to have done anything wrong, and he was never disciplined by Congress or charged with anything. Considering what we see every day from Trump and his greedy crew, something McCain did or didn't do 30+ years ago is what doesn't even register.
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The existence of a worse villain doesn't redeem a lesser one. Nor does the passage of time. Having gotten away with it is not absolution. As long as people are willing to overlook things because the perpetrator is 'on their side' we will continue to suffer government full of corruption. Is that worth it, if 'your side' gets enough of its agenda pushed through?
 
TragicMonkey said:
The existence of a worse villain doesn't redeem a lesser one. Nor does the passage of time. Having gotten away with it is not absolution. As long as people are willing to overlook things because the perpetrator is 'on their side' we will continue to suffer government full of corruption. Is that worth it, if 'your side' gets enough of its agenda pushed through?
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Here's the question for you. Is McCain simply the worst or best thing he has done? Is any of us?

I cannot ignore the Keating 5 or McCain's awful positions on Gay equality or that he was a war monger. But I also cannot ignore his many good and principled actions either. I can despise his misdeeds and still respect his honorable actions.
 
TragicMonkey said:
The existence of a worse villain doesn't redeem a lesser one. Nor does the passage of time. Having gotten away with it is not absolution. As long as people are willing to overlook things because the perpetrator is 'on their side' we will continue to suffer government full of corruption. Is that worth it, if 'your side' gets enough of its agenda pushed through?
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I don't remember the details of the Keating 5. IMO if not absolution he gets some credit for apparently staying clean after that. The thing to remember is he was behind 95 percent of the GOP agenda - obstructing Democrats, being anti-choice, pro-Iraq War etc. He did do some things well-meaning campaign finance reform that have probably been undone by the SC and I still think the McCain-Kennedy immigration bill was his finest hour. It's the whole reason he is reviled on the far right IMO.

He wasn't a hater AFAIK. Not that he exactly deserves a medal for that, but it's something.
 
I sure did not like everything about McCain, but on the whole he was a very decent person who usually had the courage of his convictions.
 
acbytesla said:
Here's the question for you. Is McCain simply the worst or best thing he has done? Is any of us?

I cannot ignore the Keating 5 or McCain's awful positions on Gay equality or that he was a war monger. But I also cannot ignore his many good and principled actions either. I can despise his misdeeds and still respect his honorable actions.
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Did I say otherwise? My objection is to ignoring the bad, not acknowledging the good. I personally don't feel that there can be sufficient good to outweigh the effects of corruption in office, but I realize I have unusually high standards for public office. I to not require someone be a veritable devil in order to find them unsuitable for further office. He wasn't the worst, no, but he was bad enough.
 
TragicMonkey said:
The existence of a worse villain doesn't redeem a lesser one. Nor does the passage of time. Having gotten away with it is not absolution. As long as people are willing to overlook things because the perpetrator is 'on their side' we will continue to suffer government full of corruption. Is that worth it, if 'your side' gets enough of its agenda pushed through?
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Five senators were investigated at the time as "the Keating Five." Three were disciplined for misconduct. McCain and John Glenn were not. What do you think makes McCain a "villain?"
 
Trump was too much of a chicken to serve in Vietnam and that is okay but he should show some respect and admiration for those who did.
 
TragicMonkey said:
Did I say otherwise? My objection is to ignoring the bad, not acknowledging the good. I personally don't feel that there can be sufficient good to outweigh the effects of corruption in office, but I realize I have unusually high standards for public office. I to not require someone be a veritable devil in order to find them unsuitable for further office. He wasn't the worst, no, but he was bad enough.
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You always get a bit of hagiography when a public figure who was not a total scroundel dies. A couple of weeks after the Funeral things get back to normal. It's SOP.
Me, I don't think it's bad that we focus on the good side of McCain for a few days.
You had pretty much the same thing when Ted Kennedy died. CHappaquidick was not mentioned much for a few days .
 
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