Merged A new argument pro Near Death Experiences

[Twoflower]

Are you confusing near death experience with astral walking when you would be aware of the external world. It can be a totally internal experience, like mine, so how could there be empirical proof?

 

[SOdhner]

It can be a totally internal experience

Those are called dreams. We already know about them.

 

[The Sparrow]

Are you confusing near death experience with astral walking when you would be aware of the external world. It can be a totally internal experience, like mine, so how could there be empirical proof?

I spoke to God, and he told me that there is no such thing as "astral walking".
He was the real one true God and he told me so. (privately) You claims are false even though I can't empirically prove it to you.

 

[MaartenVergu]

In the Belgian newspaper De Morgen I read the following about the end of life today:

Until now, brain death had only been detected visually with electrodes on the scalp. The results seemed to indicate that the brain activity simply 'extinguished'. But in nine patients with severe brain injuries who were followed up in the UZ Charité of Berlin via electrodes under the brain membrane and in the cerebral cortex, data was also collected after death - with the consent of the next of kin. The activity could be filmed via transillumination - a technique with bright light.

"Exhausted neurons

The result is amazing. (after research brain at end of life) Immediately after the last heartbeat - at the moment that the blood pressure drops drastically - you see how the neurons in all parts of the brain cease all activity.
As if they become aware of the problem and want to consume as little energy as possible.
This can take up to two to three minutes. If the blood circulation is then restarted, there is no damage.

(that's the moment when people have enhanced and very rich experiences of NDE's, when not one neuron is firing anymore)

But at a certain moment neurons get exhausted: they give up the fight. They dissolve potassium and glutamate, a neurotransmitter. This triggers a chain reaction. With a speed of 50 micrometres per second it draws through the brain. No flash. But a progressive wave of heat and energy. A kind of explosive surrounding fire that causes the actual death. Because the potassium is poisonous and kills the neurons. "
Source: Dutch newspaper.

I couldn't find the scientific paper.

 

[Darat]

(that's the moment when people have enhanced and very rich experiences of NDE's, when not one neuron is firing anymore)


How do you know this? If as the article states this is the first time these measurements have been taken you can't know that is when any NDE may have occurred in the past.

 

[steenkh]

(that's the moment when people have enhanced and very rich experiences of NDE's, when not one neuron is firing anymore)

I also want to ask how do you know that? Why can't the NDE experiences be formed when losing consciousness? Or when awaking?

Interesting article, by the way.

 

[MaartenVergu]

The study was done in january 2018:
Study of brain during dying process


Some sceptics think that the NDE occures during this 'wave of warmth and energy'.

However his surge of energy coincides with the destruction of the neurons. No NDE survivor would be able to tell anything after the total destruction of his neurons. CPR teams work to avoid this by bringing their patients back to cardiorespiratory function before and NDE's are reported during the procedures, before this final necrosis occurs.

 

[Mojo]

You mean that NDEs only happen when people haven’t actually died?

 

[MaartenVergu]

I mean that NDE's seem to happen when all neural activity is gone.

 

[Mojo]

I mean that NDE's seem to happen when all neural activity is gone.

Do you have any evidence for that?

 

[Mojo]

I would also be interested in seeing your evidence that some sceptics think that NDEs occur during a “wave of warmth and energy” that coincides with the total destruction of the subject’s neurons.

 

[Mojo]

Oh, and some evidence for this “wave of warmth and energy” would be nice as well.

 

[Darat]

I mean that NDE's seem to happen when all neural activity is gone.

And you base this on?

 

[Darat]

I would also be interested in seeing your evidence that some sceptics think that NDEs occur during a “wave of warmth and energy” that coincides with the total destruction of the subject’s neurons.

Especially since that would not be a NDE that would be a DE!

 

[MaartenVergu]

I would also be interested in seeing your evidence that some sceptics think that NDEs occur during a “wave of warmth and energy” that coincides with the total destruction of the subject’s neurons.

In studies with animals (rats) was shown that a huge synchronic firing of neurons occured just before dying and some sceptics said (back then) that this was probably the reason why NDE's happen.

 

[MaartenVergu]

double

 

[MaartenVergu]

The study was done in january 2018:
Study of brain during dying process


So some sceptics think that the NDE occures during this synchronic firing of neurons just before dying.

However his surge of energy coincides with the destruction of the neurons. No NDE survivor would be able to tell anything after the total destruction of his neurons. CPR teams work to avoid this by bringing their patients back to cardiorespiratory function before and NDE's are reported during the procedures, before this final necrosis occurs.

 

[Mojo]

In studies with animals (rats) was shown that a huge synchronic firing of neurons occured just before dying and some sceptics said (back then) that this was probably the reason why NDE's happen.

That’s just another unsupported claim, without the bit about the “wave of warmth and energy” and the total destruction of the neurons. Even if supported by actual evidence it still wouldn’t support your original claim.

 

[Mojo]

The study was done in january 2018:
Study of brain during dying process


So some sceptics think that the NDE occures during this synchronic firing of neurons just before dying.

However his surge of energy coincides with the destruction of the neurons. No NDE survivor would be able to tell anything after the total destruction of his neurons. CPR teams work to avoid this by bringing their patients back to cardiorespiratory function before and NDE's are reported during the procedures, before this final necrosis occurs.

You mean that NDEs only happen when people haven’t actually died?

 

[Mojo]

The study was done in january 2018:
Study of brain during dying process


So some sceptics think that the NDE occures during this synchronic firing of neurons just before dying.

And, by the way, that’s a complete non-sequitur. Neither the fact that the study was carried out, or the actual findings of the study, support your conclusion.