quadraginta
Becoming Beth
Obviously lesbians should have their own protected space in prison.
"Get the L Out", after all.
TERFs crash London Pride
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Obviously lesbians should have their own protected space in prison.
"Get the L Out", after all.
Mycroft
High Priest of Ed
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Really this is just an assertion that trans-women are not really women.
What extends from that is if they don't have access to "sex-protected" spaces such as bathrooms and locker rooms then their access to public life is seriously restricted.
kellyb
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If lesbians raping other women in prison is a problem in need of addressing, that's kind of its own issue, but I'm not seeing evidence that it's as common as male inmates raping other males.
There's not a lot of data to work with, though, that I can find.
Here's some advice for women who feel threatened by being involuntarily co-housed with physically male-bodied trans women:
- They should hit the gym.
- They should learn to make friends.
- They should take up practice of self-defense techniques.
- They should be polite and watch their mouths and not antagonize.
- They should be more understanding of the self-esteem issues underlying others' aggression.
- They should learn to stick up for themselves.
- They should stay out of trouble.
- They should refrain from complaining to authorities, which just makes them come across as even more whiny and pathetic.
Sounds like terrible advice? I agree.
But perhaps it will have to do. After all, that is the exact advice smaller-bodied males have been given since time immemorial, for how to deal with physical threats resulting from being involuntarily co-housed with other males who are physically much stronger and might be three times their weight (or more, among youths when age differences are also involved).
- They should hit the gym.
- They should learn to make friends.
- They should take up practice of self-defense techniques.
- They should be polite and watch their mouths and not antagonize.
- They should be more understanding of the self-esteem issues underlying others' aggression.
- They should learn to stick up for themselves.
- They should stay out of trouble.
- They should refrain from complaining to authorities, which just makes them come across as even more whiny and pathetic.
Sounds like terrible advice? I agree.
But perhaps it will have to do. After all, that is the exact advice smaller-bodied males have been given since time immemorial, for how to deal with physical threats resulting from being involuntarily co-housed with other males who are physically much stronger and might be three times their weight (or more, among youths when age differences are also involved).
Sherkeu
Illuminator
Men don't get pregnant, no matter their size or age.
You'd have to make it a requirement that transwomen do not have any viable sperm, then you can make such a comparison.
Sherkeu
Illuminator
It's a natural consequence that doesn't exist in the other scenario provided by Myriad. It also doesn't need to be rape or have the trans woman be the aggressor. Prisoners have sex with each other. If eggs and sperm are meeting up, there's going to be pregnancies. The risk depends on the frequency and fertility of the population.
i think it's safe to say that if you put more male bodies in with female bodies in a confined space like a prison, you'll get more unintended (or even intended!) pregnancies.
I think Myriad hit the nail on the head, there.
Risk of pregnancy is a separate issue but one that should be pretty straightforward, I mean, how do we deal with prisoners being impregnated against their will now? It should be the kind of thing you can pin very thoroughly to the perpetrator and then that person can be dealt with.
If it's not dealt with properly in practice then it seems to me that's just another gross flaw in a prison system that needs serious overhauling. But I feel like solving the problems of how we do prisons and how we manage violence in prisons is its own whole topic, and it seems disingenuous to point out any one risk prisoners pose to one another and go 'we could eliminate that one risk to the general population of prisoners by increasing a bunch of other risks to a small minority population of prisoners.' We typically don't even deal with the risk of impregnation by shady male staff at women's prisons by having women's prisons staffed entirely by women, top to bottom, so it seems grossly unfair to turn away all trans women prisoners on the principle of eliminating that risk.
Risk of pregnancy is a separate issue but one that should be pretty straightforward, I mean, how do we deal with prisoners being impregnated against their will now? It should be the kind of thing you can pin very thoroughly to the perpetrator and then that person can be dealt with.
If it's not dealt with properly in practice then it seems to me that's just another gross flaw in a prison system that needs serious overhauling. But I feel like solving the problems of how we do prisons and how we manage violence in prisons is its own whole topic, and it seems disingenuous to point out any one risk prisoners pose to one another and go 'we could eliminate that one risk to the general population of prisoners by increasing a bunch of other risks to a small minority population of prisoners.' We typically don't even deal with the risk of impregnation by shady male staff at women's prisons by having women's prisons staffed entirely by women, top to bottom, so it seems grossly unfair to turn away all trans women prisoners on the principle of eliminating that risk.
Sherkeu
Illuminator
Nearly all transgendered persons of either gender (pre-op, as most are) want to be housed with the women. No one wants to face the increased risk (certainty?) of violence on the men's side. i will agree that there are very good reasons to fear for their safety.
Given the access a child has these day to information, information relatively uncensored I suspect many learn about what they are a lot younger than even say a child 15 years ago would have done.
Elagabalus
Philosopher
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Your Wiki page actually says this:
If we take your figure of 1 million transgenders in the U.S. (which I'm not at all sure about) and divide by 10 we get 100,000 of which 716 will be incarcerated as stated by Wiki (again we don't know how transgenders compare to the general populace. Are they less likely to be incarcerated than men but more likely than cis-woman and by how much?)
Anyway, if we now multiply by 10 we get the total amount of transgenders in prison out of the 1 million transgenders in the US. 7160
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Mycroft
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Exactly what Luchog said. JihadJane's fearmongering was, "telling vulnerable young boys that they have been born in the wrong body and will require medical intervention..." implying that some boys are coerced into gender altering surgery just because they play with some girls toys and not because they self-identify as female.
I'm skeptical that this ever happens, much less is happening frequently. There is such a huge gulf between a family being supportive of what their child tells them and then allowing them to transition and coercing a child to transition out of some insane bizarro version of political correctness.
Mycroft
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That and trans-women are not really women. I guess the jurry is still out on trans-men? Are they allowed/required to go to the women's bathroom or shower? It's not clear, I wish Rolfe or JihadJane would clarify.
Mycroft
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https://www.scientificamerican.com/...y-women-is-more-common-than-previously-known/
It turns out women raping women in prison is pretty common too.
Mycroft
High Priest of Ed
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Identifying trans-women as men is not being trans-inclusive.
Earthborn
Terrestrial Intelligence
Since most males in prison are straight, the males most at risk of being raped are those who most resemble women, such as small, slender and/or effeminate men. Putting trans-women in men's prisons puts them at a greater risk of being raped than pretty much anyone else.
Of course, if any rape at all occurs in any prison, it is time to fundamentally reconsider how the prison system works.
Mycroft
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Because women getting pregnant from trans-gender rape is a thing now?
How often does it happen? Can you cite any examples?
luchog
Neo-Post-Retro-Revivalist
kellyb
Penultimate Amazing
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I don't know of any studies which have addressed the issue of what all the 12 year olds seeking sex reassignment meds and surgery have encountered which might have encouraged them to seek such medical reassignment so young.
Are you aware of any?