TERFs crash London Pride

[JoeMorgue]

Your name is Joe, not Jo. I don't think transgender people are a danger to you.

Your fear and paranoia is not the mic drop you think it is.

"But.. but I'm a woman!" Okay and? Your continued assertion that this justifies demonizing other genders and sexual demographics is insulting.

 

[Information Analyst]

As I understand it, they did not set out to lead the march. They set out to join the march, and the organisers tried to have them ejected. They then lay down in the street either on or under their banners, not sure which. At some point the organisers were made aware that legally they had no power to exclude the women from the march. Their eventual position was the result of this contretemps and not actually intended.

Yet despite presumably being very aware that the NHS was supposed to be leading the march - what with it being the 70th anniversary, and all (a not unpublicised event) - they just couldn't bring themselves to **** off when they obviously weren't wanted?

 

[sadhatter]

Because said group of lesbians are directly denying - as you are - the personal validity of transwomen and transmen. The very fact that you can't even bring yourself to use those terms, but instead keep saying "trans identifying men/women" is exactly the same denialism.

They are doing no such thing.

Self identification does not involve other people, the problem comes in when you demand others agree to your self identification.

Then it becomes a matter of opinion.

If you want to say " I think I'm a woman" that's fine. As a nice person I'll tend not to want to piss on your flowers about it. But when you say "you have to think I'm a woman" then you are asking me for something, and im going to need a good reason to give it to you. So far the beast reason I've seen is "if you don't it makes me want to kill myself" and while I empathize I can't go around changing my actions every tone someone threatens to kill themselves. If I did that I'd still be in an abusive relationship.

 

[sadhatter]

Yet despite presumably being very aware that the NHS was supposed to be leading the march - what with it being the 70th anniversary, and all (a not unpublicised event) - they just couldn't bring themselves to **** off when they obviously weren't wanted?

I'd say the same about trans folks at women's events. Or myself. If I'm not wanted I'm not there. But seeing as very few people think like that anymore why should the terfs be the only ones held to the standard?

All this **** reminds me of the kid that forgets the dog exists when they get a new kitten. "Sorry lesbians but the trans folks are just so cute and fragile. Maybe I'll remember to let you out tomorrow. "

 

[Rolfe]

Yet despite presumably being very aware that the NHS was supposed to be leading the march - what with it being the 70th anniversary, and all (a not unpublicised event) - they just couldn't bring themselves to **** off when they obviously weren't wanted?

What's the first letter of LGB.... again?

I wasn't there so obviously I don't know exactly what people were thinking. I didn't know the NHS was supposed to be leading the march for example. Your post is the first I've heard of that.

Lesbians, that is the L part, turn up to a Pride march with banners saying who they are, and they should "just piss off because they're not wanted"?

 

[Rolfe]

Your fear and paranoia is not the mic drop you think it is.

"But.. but I'm a woman!" Okay and? Your continued assertion that this justifies demonizing other genders and sexual demographics is insulting.

I'm a woman who supports the continuing existence of single-sex spaces where appropriate, including bathing and toilet facilities, sleeping accommodation, sporting events and crisis centres.

I'm thoroughly tired of men lining up to tell me that I must budge over and let any man who says the magic words into these spaces, because "the most incredibly marginalised group" (who happen to be men) wants in.

Why should men be granted the right to enter these spaces? The reply seems to be that they might feel a bit upset if they're not granted that right. What about the women, women being over 50% of the population mind, who might feel a bit upset if a man starts getting his kit off in the female changing room she's in, or in preparation to bedding down in the other bed in the shared sleeping accommodation she'd been assured was single-sex? Why is the concern of one group granted absolute priority and the concern of the other group isn't even allowed to be talked about?

 

[Information Analyst]

What's the first letter of LGB.... again?

I wasn't there so obviously I don't know exactly what people were thinking. I didn't know the NHS was supposed to be leading the march for example. Your post is the first I've heard of that.

Lesbians, that is the L part, turn up to a Pride march with banners saying who they are, and they should "just piss off because they're not wanted"?

Who appointed them the representatives of all lesbians? Apparently they were outnumbered by a lot more lesbians who were just as pissed off by their antics as everyone else.

 

[JoeMorgue]

I'm a woman who supports the continuing existence of single-sex spaces where appropriate, including bathing and toilet facilities, sleeping accommodation, sporting events and crisis centres.

I'm thoroughly tired of men lining up to tell me that I must budge over and let any man who says the magic words into these spaces, because "the most incredibly marginalised group" (who happen to be men) wants in.

Oh I'm not going to listen to the "Don't mainsplain to me" speech from you.

You're hiding bigoted arguments behind a facade of fear.

 

[Rolfe]

Who appointed them the representatives of all lesbians? Apparently a lot more lesbians were pissed off by their antics than there was of them.

Male or female lesbians, I wonder?

They simply pitched up to join what was supposed to be an inclusive march. Funny how the "lesbians" marching with the pink baseball bats wrapped in barbed wire and labelled things like "TERF-basher" were allowed to participate unhindered.

 

[Porpoise of Life]

I'm a woman who supports the continuing existence of single-sex spaces where appropriate, including bathing and toilet facilities, sleeping accommodation, sporting events and crisis centres.

I'm thoroughly tired of men lining up to tell me that I must budge over and let any man who says the magic words into these spaces, because "the most incredibly marginalised group" (who happen to be men) wants in.

Why should men be granted the right to enter these spaces? The reply seems to be that they might feel a bit upset if they're not granted that right. What about the women, women being over 50% of the population mind, who might feel a bit upset if a man starts getting his kit off in the female changing room she's in, or in preparation to bedding down in the other bed in the shared sleeping accommodation she'd been assured was single-sex? Why is the concern of one group granted absolute priority and the concern of the other group isn't even allowed to be talked about?

How about trans men on hormones? By your rules, they'd have to go back to the women's facilities. Are you just going to be fine with someone with a beard walking into a dressing room if they say they've got a vagina or XX chromosomes?
Or are they banned from 'your' space too?

 

[Information Analyst]

They simply pitched up to join what was supposed to be an inclusive march. Funny how the "lesbians" marching with the pink baseball bats wrapped in barbed wire and labelled things like "TERF-basher" were allowed to participate unhindered.

Is that how you think an event on the scale of London Pride happens? Everyone just "pitches up" and randomly takes a place on the day? Your excuses for the inexcusable are getting silly now.

 

[Rolfe]

It's a source of puzzlement to me how it is that we're told that non-gender-conforming men must be allowed access to all women's spaces because they would be in mortal danger if they ventured into a gents' lavatory, and yet the most vocal people asserting this are - men.

This thread and other discussions are dominated by (mostly but not exclusively straight) men lining up to attack women as bigots and haters for wanting to preserve their sex-designated spaces. Everything must be done for the comfort and convenience of our trans-identifying brothers. By women that is. Because men are such brutes that they can't possibly be accommodated within male accommodation.

But it's absolutely fine to insist that women accept any man who wants to enter their spaces, because these men can't possibly be brutes at all....

This is making my head spin.

 

[JoeMorgue]

I'm saying across the board "I don't want you near me because I'm scared of you" is wrong.

You have no more right to be scared of men as a group then of blacks or Muslims or gays.

 

[3point14]

NM. Again.

 

[Rolfe]

How about trans men on hormones? By your rules, they'd have to go back to the women's facilities. Are you just going to be fine with someone with a beard walking into a dressing room if they say they've got a vagina or XX chromosomes?
Or are they banned from 'your' space too?

This is something women are trying to have a conversation about, and work out solutions that take everyone's needs into account. This is the conversation that the trans activists are trying extremely hard to shut down. The relatively recent rise of the very masculine "transwoman" who demands aggressively to have no distinction made between him and actual women is screwing the pitch very badly for the live-and-let-live trans people of both sexes who have managed a modus vivendi that generally hasn't upset anyone. I don't know how it will eventually play out.

I do know that shouting "you must think the way I tell you to think, there is no debate" is not a good way to advance understanding.

 

[Rolfe]

I'm saying across the board "I don't want you near me because I'm scared of you" is wrong.

You have no more right to be scared of men as a group then of blacks or Muslims or gays.

Thus ignoring the entire history of the abuse of women by men. Women know they have very good reason to be scared of men, because nobody can tell which men are harmless and which ones are rapists until it happens. This is THE EXACT REASON protected women's spaces were fought for in the first place.

 

[Information Analyst]

It's a source of puzzlement to me how it is that we're told that non-gender-conforming men must be allowed access to all women's spaces because they would be in mortal danger if they ventured into a gents' lavatory, and yet the most vocal people asserting this are - men.

This thread and other discussions are dominated by (mostly but not exclusively straight) men lining up to attack women as bigots and haters for wanting to preserve their sex-designated spaces. Everything must be done for the comfort and convenience of our trans-identifying brothers. By women that is. Because men are such brutes that they can't possibly be accommodated within male accommodation.

But it's absolutely fine to insist that women accept any man who wants to enter their spaces, because these men can't possibly be brutes at all....

This is making my head spin.

Most men seem fine about accommodating transmen. I know you seem adverse to even acknowledging that side of the issue even exists, but the lack of any equivalent outrage is quite stark in comparison. Then again, blokes have long been used to not batting an eyelid when ciswomen use the gents, as well.

 

[Porpoise of Life]

Edit: never mind.

 

[ponderingturtle]

To one side.

To the other is about members of the LGBT community being silenced in favor of members that are more media relevant.

Stories about gay people are so last last year, trans is where it is at for gaining sjw points.

Yep like why people were right to be mad at a transman winning international letherman.

 

[3point14]

<snip>The relatively recent rise of the very masculine "transwoman" who demands aggressively to have no distinction made between him and actual women is screwing the pitch very badly for the live-and-let-live trans people of both sexes who have managed a modus vivendi that generally hasn't upset anyone.

Could you estimate a ratio between these two groups. How many of the former are there?