Cont: The Trump Presidency VIII

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JoeMorgue said:
Alright controversial opinion.

Yes you can (and should) argue that Trump was rude, unprofessional, and just being a general dickwad while meeting with Queen Elizabeth.

But any complaints that he "didn't follow Royal Protocol" can get take a flying **** at a rolling donut. The Queen of England doesn't get to set special rules (or have others set rules on her behalf) for how other heads of state have to act around her.

Trump should have treated her with a lot more basic respect and... just basic human interaction standards then he did but, and it pains me to say anything apologetic about Trump, him not following some subservient routine in body language and Royal Court procedures doesn't bother me in the least.

Trump is not a citizen of the British Empire. He is no more obligated to bow to the Queen then the Queen is to salute Trump for being Commander in Chief of the American Armed Forces.

TL:dr - I'm as mad as everyone at him not treating her with the respect due another head of state, but that's it. He had every right to act around, talk to, interact with, and maintain the same poise and body language with Queen Elizabeth as he does with every other foreign head of state.

And it bugs me when they do this in regards to the Pope as well.
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There are diplomatic protocols that all heads of state follow. That's how we avoid wars.

there is no protocol for anyone to bow or curtsey to the Queen, especially at head of state level but he is a guest in another country. If he wants to play the big boy and ignore protocol then he should stay at home and invent his own rules.

Trump acts like ignorant un-educated dickhead. If that is how you want the head of state of your country to act when he visits other countries then good luck to you.
 
JoeMorgue said:
Alright controversial opinion.

Yes you can (and should) argue that Trump was rude, unprofessional, and just being a general dickwad while meeting with Queen Elizabeth.

But any complaints that he "didn't follow Royal Protocol" can get take a flying **** at a rolling donut. The Queen of England doesn't get to set special rules (or have others set rules on her behalf) for how other heads of state have to act around her.
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There's something I'm not clear on. When they get to the ranks of the soldiers, she gestured for him to do something - she moved her hand to the left - as if she was instructing him. She then looks like she's trying to go around him, to his left (closer to the Guard of Honor), but he stops, and rather than trying to overtake him on the left she slots herself into his right.

I think it's hilarious that RT titles this clip Peekaboo! Trump blocks Queen Elizabeth's way at official function

Also, it's fun to see YouTube includes a fairly prominent link saying RT is funded by the Russian Government, with this link to Wikipedia.

This was just put up an hour ago, meaning Russia is making sure to present Trump's gaffes ahead of his visit with POO-tin.

ETA: Maybe Trump was confused about where he was supposed to walk. The rule for walking along a street, I recall, is that the gentleman is supposed to be on the outside (closer to the street), in case a carriage spatters mud he is besmirched, and not the lady. So maybe he thought he was supposed to protect her from the Guard of Honor! Then they make a left turn, and Trump again eclipses the view of the queen, since he is closer to the camera and much larger. I doubt if this was the intent of whoever stages these pageants.
 
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Minoosh said:
There's something I'm not clear on. When they get to the ranks of the soldiers, she gestured for him to do something - she moved her hand to the left - as if she was instructing him. She then looks like she's trying to go around him, to his left (closer to the Guard of Honor), but he stops, and rather than trying to overtake him on the left she slots herself into his right.

I think it's hilarious that RT titles this clip Peekaboo! Trump blocks Queen Elizabeth's way at official function

Also, it's fun to see YouTube includes a fairly prominent link saying RT is funded by the Russian Government, with this link to Wikipedia.

This was just put up an hour ago, meaning Russia is making sure to present Trump's gaffes ahead of his visit with POO-tin.

ETA: Maybe Trump was confused about where he was supposed to walk. The rule for walking along a street, I recall, is that the gentleman is supposed to be on the outside (closer to the street), in case a carriage spatters mud he is besmirched, and not the lady. So maybe he thought he was supposed to protect her from the Guard of Honor! Then they make a left turn, and Trump again eclipses the view of the queen, since he is closer to the camera and much larger. I doubt if this was the intent of whoever stages these pageants.
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Standard protocol for inspecting an honour guard is the host head of state is nearest the guards and the guest head of state is to the outside.

It is the host head of states guard, not the visitors guard.
Trump will have been told this beforehand.

As for walking on the outside, you are getting confused. It was customary for the man to walk with a lady to his left to leave his sword arm free to defend himself and her if required.

That isn't the case when heads of state are inspecting an honour guard.
 
Captain_Swoop said:
As for walking on the outside, you are getting confused. It was customary for the man to walk with a lady to his left to leave his sword arm free to defend himself and her if required.
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It's also customary for a gentleman to take the open side of the pavement to catch any splashes. This means a couple will proceed along the left side of the street, and is why driving on the left is nature's way.
 
Of all the wrong things Trump does, I could care less about this the most. Trump is an ass. A total social moron. I care much more about how he treats Mexican immigrants and the poor than how he treats a queen.
 
President Donald Trump’s pair of golf resorts in Scotland have steadily lost money, with losses calculated at $23 million the last year his company reported figures to United Kingdom officials.

U.S. voters may not know that.

That’s because Trump told U.S. officials that Trump Turnberry earned $15 million and Trump International Golf Links in Aberdeen earned $3.8 million in what he describes as “golf-related revenue” for roughly the same period of time.

https://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/white-house/article214265614.html
 
Captain_Swoop said:
As for walking on the outside, you are getting confused. It was customary for the man to walk with a lady to his left to leave his sword arm free to defend himself and her if required.

That isn't the case when heads of state are inspecting an honour guard.
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Dunno, those bearskin hats are pretty scary.
 
acbytesla said:
Of all the wrong things Trump does, I could care less about this the most. Trump is an ass. A total social moron. I care much more about how he treats Mexican immigrants and the poor than how he treats a queen.
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True. But as long as these symbolic little gaffes don't detract from the bigger picture (which they probably do), I don't mind.
 
Minoosh said:
True. But as long as these symbolic little gaffes don't detract from the bigger picture (which they probably do), I don't mind.
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I flat out don't care. These are the silly things that partisans chalk up as another reason Obama, Trump, Clinton etc are not qualified.

There are 99 problems with Trump and this bitch ain't one.
 
I'm sure Donny is aware of how much protocol is observed in a White House State visit, it would just be courteous of him to give his own behavior the same level of attention.

Bowing etc. is surely optional, but how to walk, when to walk and where in relation to the host HoS is probably spelled out (though not in crayon) in simple, long thought out terms. It's not rocket surgery.

Though I'd love to visit Donny at the WH (as a HoS)... in board shorts and flip flops (just picturing myself, not that his badly fitted suits are cheap or anything) going... Hey Mr. P, how's it hangin'. Then rushing ahead (against protocol) wherever we walked. You know... just bein' a dick Trump.
His head would assplode. :(
 
Jim_MDP said:
I'm sure Donny is aware of how much protocol is observed in a White House State visit, it would just be courteous of him to give his own behavior the same level of attention.

Bowing etc. is surely optional, but how to walk, when to walk and where in relation to the host HoS is probably spelled out (though not in crayon) in simple, long thought out terms. It's not rocket surgery.

Though I'd love to visit Donny at the WH (as a HoS)... in board shorts and flip flops (just picturing myself, not that his badly fitted suits are cheap or anything) going... Hey Mr. P, how's it hangin'. Then rushing ahead (against protocol) wherever we walked. You know... just bein' a dick Trump.
His head would assplode. :(
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You're not wrong. But it simply isn't worth talking about. Trump is a country bumpkin...except he's from Queens. I hold a lot of things against him like his wrecking ball diplomacy. I have no room for this nonsense.
 
Captain_Swoop said:
President Donald Trump’s pair of golf resorts in Scotland have steadily lost money, with losses calculated at $23 million the last year his company reported figures to United Kingdom officials.

U.S. voters may not know that.

That’s because Trump told U.S. officials that Trump Turnberry earned $15 million and Trump International Golf Links in Aberdeen earned $3.8 million in what he describes as “golf-related revenue” for roughly the same period of time.

https://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/white-house/article214265614.html
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Money laundering front?
 
Sarah Sanders tweets about why CNN had their interview with John Bolton on 'State Of The Union' cancelled by the WH

"A CNN reporter disrespected @POTUS & PM May during their press conf. Instead of rewarding bad behavior, we decided to reprioritize the TV appearances for administration officials."
 
Captain_Swoop said:
Sarah Sanders tweets about why CNN had their interview with John Bolton on 'State Of The Union' cancelled by the WH

"A CNN reporter disrespected @POTUS & PM May during their press conf. Instead of rewarding bad behavior, we decided to reprioritize the TV appearances for administration officials."
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Sounds about right to me.
 
Again my issue isn't with complaints/arguments that Trump was his standard jerkass self and didn't follow basic diplomatic courtesy.

My issue is with the idea that Trump was under any obligation to follow any specific "Royal Protocol" in regards to Queen Elizabeth herself, protocols that are, like it or not, rooted in how a subject should interact with their monarch that have no place in one head of state's interaction with another.

This isn't standard "Trump's being Trump." This is a head of state being expected to put himself into place of subservient genuflection to another head of state.

Yeah Trump was a jerk to Merkel and May and countless others and that needs to be addressed, but nobody was ******** kittens because he briefly stepped in front of them because of "protocol."

"Royal Protocol" and "Basic diplomatic and human manners" are not the same thing by a huge margin. There's a world of difference between being expected to understand and follow basic "How one head of state should act around another" and being expected to follow a list of specific "Protocols" tailored to a specific person that includes such nonsense as how to pronounce the "a" sound in "M'am."

Nothing like this: (Bolding Mine, link below)

Overall, deference to the Queen is expected: Arrive before her, don’t speak unless spoken to or sit or eat until she has, and never turn your back on the Queen or leave before she does.
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...has any place in two heads of state meeting.

And honestly if The UK wants to get angry because our elected President didn't follow "protocol" when interacting with their symbolic monarch, I don't think we're the ones being unreasonable here.

Trump was under no obligation to act any differently around Queen Elizabeth then he is around the Prime Minster of Canada or the President of Estonia or the Sultan of Brunei or the Head of the Lollipop Guild.

Just because Trump can do nothing right doesn't always put him in the wrong.

*http://fortune.com/2018/07/12/trump-queen-meeting-protocol/
 
Yes we get it you think it reflects well on the USA that your President is a rude ignorant boorish oaf.

Heads of state have been meeting each other for centuries, protocol had evolved to avoid causing offence and smooth relations. There are good reasons for it all.
 
Captain_Swoop said:
Heads of state have been meeting each other for centuries, protocol had evolved to avoid causing offence and smooth relations. There are good reasons for it all.
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"I demand you grovel before me as if one of my subjects and if you fail to do so it's your fault for causing offence and preventing smooth relations."

Yeah that flows.

So what exactly does our President get to demand the Queen do or not do in his presence lest if cause "offense?"

And Trump is a rude, boorish oaf for plenty of legit reasons. Not treating the Queen of England like he's still a subject of the crown is not one of them.
 
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