Cont: Brexit: Now What? Part 5

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Information Analyst said:
Oh, I think there is very much of a need. Cards on the table, and all that.
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Ah no, we're dealing with Daily Mail level critical thinking here. As it is stated, so it is and the actual reality of the situation is irrelevant.

The whole leaving the EU plan absolutely requires a lack of cards on the table and no call for any claims to be evidenced.

It is a plan concocted by evil, borderline treasonous men only supported by those few who stand to gain and those who can't actually think their way through a sun crossword puzzle. Low intelligence, low information voters that don't even know that they lie in those categories.

We're dealing here with people, and think about this carefully, who 'believe the Daily Mail'. How *********** stupid do you have to be to fall for that claptrap?
 
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ddt said:
I hate to be repetitive, but the only way that Brussels made it "difficult" was to insist that the UK come up with concrete proposals, something that has cost the UK government now 2 years since the referendum. The other thing that makes it difficult, and that the UK has never really thought through, is its own colonial heritage on that island west over.
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I can't disagree with this statement.

There's no doubt about it, the UK government has caused a lot of their own problems with Brexit moving forward. In many ways, more so than the Brussels side.

However, I'm also of the thinking that it's a two way street. The UK is not the only side at fault with this whole mess. We can't ignore the other side of this equation. Brussels is not innocent in this debacle either.

It takes two to tango.
 
AnonyMoose said:
I can't disagree with this statement.

There's no doubt about it, the UK government has caused a lot of their own problems with Brexit moving forward. In many ways, more so than the Brussels side.

However, I'm also of the thinking that it's a two way street. The UK is not the only side at fault with this whole mess. We can't ignore the other side of this equation. Brussels is not innocent in this debacle either.

It takes two to tango.
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Then please be explicit about the ways in which the EU has made Brexit difficult.
 
AnonyMoose said:
I can't disagree with this statement.

There's no doubt about it, the UK government has caused a lot of their own problems with Brexit moving forward. In many ways, more so than the Brussels side.

However, I'm also of the thinking that it's a two way street. The UK is not the only side at fault with this whole mess. We can't ignore the other side of this equation. Brussels is not innocent in this debacle either.

It takes two to tango.
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Care to point out where Brussels is "not innocent"? Did they force the UK to vote to leave? Haven't they had the utmost patience, from Thatcher's handbagging 30 years ago to David Cameron again coming to try to get even more rebates and exceptions in spring 2016?

It was the UK's, and only the UK's decision to leave. Therefore, it is incumbent on the UK to come up with workable proposals.
 
AnonyMoose said:
However, I'm also of the thinking that it's a two way street. The UK is not the only side at fault with this whole mess. We can't ignore the other side of this equation. Brussels is not innocent in this debacle either.

It takes two to tango.
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In this case the UK has only just decided they're going to dance a tango, so it's hard to blame the EU for not dancing when they didn't know what sodding dance they were expected to perform. And it's a weird tango that involves wearing wetsuits and wellington boots and a Carmen Miranda hat, so it's very possible they'll decline the invitation.
 
GlennB said:
In this case the UK has only just decided they're going to dance a tango, so it's hard to blame the EU for not dancing when they didn't know what sodding dance they were expected to perform. And it's a weird tango that involves wearing wetsuits and wellington boots and a Carmen Miranda hat, so it's very possible they'll decline the invitation.
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FTFY - you are getting ahead of yourself we've only just decided that we will dance - we'll need a bit longer to work out what dance we want to do!
 
AnonyMoose said:
Yes, the original idea behind forming the EU was that of "stronger together".

But the problem is that it's now become nothing but a bureaucratic nightmare with the suits in Brussels dictating terms to the other member countries. Thus tying the hands of sovereign nations being able to make decisions on an individual basis, based on each country's individual needs.

Nothing wrong with economic and military alliances, in fact they are a necessity in today's global world... but only so long as each member still has the ability to move freely around the board without unwanted hinderances coming from a small group of self-serving prats in some boardroom.
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It's always amazing to realize that the more people criticise the EU the less knowledge on how the EU institutions function they have.
 
ddt said:
For convenience, the link to the BBC article again.

As to primacy of the ECJ, it says this:

Given the first paragraph, when there's a dispute within the EU about the rules, the ECJ decides and that becomes the law of the land. The UK just as to follow suit. So through the backdoor, there's still de-facto primacy of the ECJ, at least in trade.

Similarly, as the EU has more weight to throw around, it would effectively be able to bully the UK into compliance with EU rules. And else, "no trade for you!"
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I'd be interested to hear from any Leavers how it could possibly be otherwise though.

If the UK wishes to comply with EU rules in order to maintain good trade relations then it will not and could not be for the UK Government to decide whether they are in fact in compliance. It would have to be a European body.

Equally if they do not decide to comply with EU rules then again it will be up to Europe how they react to that - presumably by excluding UK products and services from their area of control.

Which is why the ONLY sensible position for someone wishing to trade with the EU is to be inside the tent influencing the rules and regulations.
 
Aber said:
Or alternatively the EU accepts that other countries rules are equivalent to EU ones.


https://ec.europa.eu/info/business-economy-euro/banking-and-finance/international-relations/recognition-non-eu-financial-frameworks-equivalence-decisions_en
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Which is, as I said, up to the EU to decide. And if said country decides to change its rules then again the EU would be free to decide they are no longer equivalent.

What is not and could never be the case is that the EU provides another country with carte blanche to simply define its own rules without consequences.
 
AnonyMoose said:
I can't disagree with this statement.

There's no doubt about it, the UK government has caused a lot of their own problems with Brexit moving forward. In many ways, more so than the Brussels side.

However, I'm also of the thinking that it's a two way street. The UK is not the only side at fault with this whole mess. We can't ignore the other side of this equation. Brussels is not innocent in this debacle either.

It takes two to tango.
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It only takes one to screw up the dance.

Or to walk out of the dance hall.
 
Darat said:
FTFY - you are getting ahead of yourself we've only just decided that we will dance - we'll need a bit longer to work out what dance we want to do!
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You clearly haven't heard: Dancing means dancing. The people clearly voted for a dance, so just get on with the dancing! :D
 
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