Why Trump/Hitler Comparisons are Unfair

[The Atheist]

Is it stupid? I dunno. I've never witnessed this sort of assault on democratic institutions before, and I've never worried about the US devolving into a banana republic before. As truly horrific as was Bush/Iraq, that was a very different situation. At no time did I worry about US democracy during the Bush presidency.

That's the part that interests me, because I am on record as saying the Second Amendment People might get a bit anti if their boy is thrown out.

What's making you worry about democracy? Do you think there's a chance the military might not abide by an election result?

 

[ahhell]

I agree (with other posters) that Mussolini is a better comparison, but so what? Echoing Upchurch here, Trump doesn't have to be on the same level as Hitler or Mussolini in order for comparisons to be informative.

The Godwin rule is by and large a load of BS, mostly referenced by shallow minds.

Maybe Mussolini but not Hitler. Like it or not, Hitler is the poster child for evil in the modern West. All it says to most folks is that you really don't like the person you're talking about regardless of how appropriate the comparison is.

 

[dudalb]

.

The Godwin rule is by and large a load of BS, mostly referenced by shallow minds.

And a lot of shallow minds also called their adversaries "Hitler" for no other reason then it was the worst thing they could think of to call them.

Godwin rule needs to be applied carefully, as do Hitler comparasions. Both can backfire on you.

 

[dudalb]

Maybe Mussolini but not Hitler. Like it or not, Hitler is the poster child for evil in the modern West. All it says to most folks is that you really don't like the person you're talking about regardless of how appropriate the comparison is.

Irony is that Hitler's great opponent (at least from 1941 to 1945) ,Uncle Joe Stalin, was probably just as evil.

 

[Upchurch]

Maybe Mussolini but not Hitler. Like it or not, Hitler is the poster child for evil in the modern West. All it says to most folks is that you really don't like the person you're talking about regardless of how appropriate the comparison is.

...aaaand we're back to page 2:

We're allowed to point out when current events parallel those of history, but only when that history isn't of late 1930's Germany?

The problem with that is the classic canard about those who do not learn from history. If we cannot even point out when events begin to repeat themselves, what good is it to learn from history?

 

[Mumbles]

And a lot of shallow minds also called their adversaries "Hitler" for no other reason then it was the worst thing they could think of to call them.

Godwin rule needs to be applied carefully, as do Hitler comparasions. Both can backfire on you.

Well...

A lot of people really don't get what Godwin's Law says to begin with (it's essentially that a long enough political discussion will eventually contain a reference to Hitler). A person who claims that (to pick various people) Obama, Rand Paul, John McCain or Nancy Pelosi are "like Hitler" are almost certainly being foolish. A president that puts people into prison camps, retweets white nationalists, and openly compliments people who throw nazi salutes, wave Nazi flags, tattoo themselves with Nazi references, and chant about how they hate the jews is inviting the comparison.

 

[varwoche]

That's the part that interests me, because I am on record as saying the Second Amendment People might get a bit anti if their boy is thrown out.

What's making you worry about democracy? Do you think there's a chance the military might not abide by an election result?

No, it's more insidious than that. Disallow the opposition from making a SCOTUS appointment. Gerrymander the districts. SCOTUS gives the gerrymander a pass. Delegitimize the justice system. Create an alternate reality that's so surreal it may as well be from dystopian fiction. All enabled by GOP officials, cultists, bigots, and the rankest of hypocrites (none of which are mutually exclusive).

 

[Upchurch]

No, it's more insidious than that. Disallow the opposition from making a SCOTUS appointment. Gerrymander the districts. SCOTUS gives the gerrymander a pass. Delegitimize the justice system. Create an alternate reality that's so surreal it may as well be from dystopian fiction. All enabled by GOP officials, cultists, bigots, and the rankest of hypocrites (none of which are mutually exclusive).

The good news is that Trump is not subtle and he rarely can be controlled by the GOP. I feel fairly confident that he'll tip his hand at numerous points.

The bad news is that Trump's supporters not only won't upset, but will manically push toward dystopia.

 

[ddt]

Did you literally hallucinate that Donald Trump was convicted for refusing black tenants in his apartment building? Or did you just make it up?

Sorry if "convicted" is not quite the right word. He was sued for breaching the Fair Housing Act and settled:

The Justice Department undertook its own investigation and, in 1973, sued Trump Management for discriminating against blacks. Both Fred Trump, the company’s chairman, and Donald Trump, its president, were named as defendants. It was front-page news, and for Donald, amounted to his debut in the public eye.
[...]
After nearly two years of legal wrangling, the Trumps gave up and signed a consent decree.

As is customary, it did not include an admission of guilt. But it did include pages of stipulations intended to ensure the desegregation of Trump properties.

So he promised to not discriminate any more. And then ignored the consent decree:

A few years later, the government accused the Trumps of violating the consent decree. “We believe that an underlying pattern of discrimination continues to exist in the Trump Management organization,” a Justice Department lawyer wrote to Mr. Cohn in 1978.

 

[The Atheist]

No, it's more insidious than that. Disallow the opposition from making a SCOTUS appointment. Gerrymander the districts. SCOTUS gives the gerrymander a pass. Delegitimize the justice system. Create an alternate reality that's so surreal it may as well be from dystopian fiction. All enabled by GOP officials, cultists, bigots, and the rankest of hypocrites (none of which are mutually exclusive).

Ok, a coup by stealth.

I can see that's a possibility alright.

 

[Hlafordlaes]

Well...

A lot of people really don't get what Godwin's Law says to begin with (it's essentially that a long enough political discussion will eventually contain a reference to Hitler). A person who claims that (to pick various people) Obama, Rand Paul, John McCain or Nancy Pelosi are "like Hitler" are almost certainly being foolish. A president that puts people into prison camps, retweets white nationalists, and openly compliments people who throw nazi salutes, wave Nazi flags, tattoo themselves with Nazi references, and chant about how they hate the jews is inviting the comparison.

Let's add open, frank defense of torture.

Let's add breaking of treaties and given word in a unilateral manner unbefitting a nation or people who wish to consider themselves trustworthy, honorable, or committed to principle.

Yet nothing speaks to the utter depravity and abject malice that jailing small children, alone and afraid, has brought to light. Republicans are enemies of all that is decent in the name of white holiness, whose stench is increasingly choking the planet.

 

[McHrozni]

Quite. German democracy was founded on a catastrophic national defeat in 1918 (only 15 years before the Reichstag Fire and the Enabling Act which gave Hitler dictatorial powers). Germany was itself a new country, founded in 1871 on a stupendous national victory, to Bismarck's authoritarian design, so there was no national democratic experience to call on.

Italy was much the same. The US, obviously, isn't. Hitler had opportunities that Trump doesn't, simply due to circumstances. So unfair. Sad.

I didn't mean to imply Trump has a superior moral character or anything, he doesn't. He's marginally better in that he would (probably) content himself in keeping the country as it is, without deportations of the people he deems inferior, that's the best I can say.

That's not an impressive bar to set, that's for sure.

Comparing him to Mussolini may be quite warranted though. He's the archetype of fascism and a much better comparison for many regimes today, from Turkey to Russia to China there are many important, non-trivial similarities. Trump belongs in the same boat as leaders of those three.

McHrozni

 

[Hlafordlaes]

... At no time did I worry about US democracy during the Bush presidency.

Strange. That presidency normalized torture and wars of aggression, continuing and doubling down in Iraq on the rampage Americans demanded in the wake of 9/11. Abu Ghraib should have been as much of a shock as the jailing of young children is today, and should have generated large demonstrations and soul-searching. Nada, zilch, zip: the American people largely stood by and yawned. Talk show fodder in between bling ads.

Fascism has always been afoot in the US, but the Bush administration completely normalized unconstrained action, free of the rule of law, completing what Reagan had started. Might alone now was enough to make right; mission accomplished. Trump is merely the logical continuation of policies seeking a Randian (as in Ayn) nightmare utopia.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

The last meaningful time the Constitution was amended was 1971.
America is in desperate need of an update.

 

[theprestige]

I thought it was fairly well implied that The Atheist meant all Aryan Germans. Did you not?

I think my mistake was in thinking the OP intended a serious, favorable comparison of Hitler to Trump.

But even among "aryan" Germans, the statement is untrue, and laughably so.

 

[Ziggurat]

I think my mistake was in thinking the OP intended a serious, favorable comparison of Hitler to Trump.

Nothing about this thread should be considered serious, even the posts intended to be so.

Once again, I called it.

 

[theprestige]

Nothing about this thread should be considered serious, even the posts intended to be so.

Once again, I called it.

I know, I know. Moment of weakness. You totally called it.

 

[Upchurch]

Nothing about this thread should be considered serious, even the posts intended to be so.

After all, it's so much easier to ignore legitimate criticism than address it.

 

[Ziggurat]

After all, it's so much easier to ignore legitimate criticism than address it.

Case in point: this post was intended to be serious, but it isn't.

 

[NoahFence]

Case in point: this post was intended to be serious, but it isn't.

Yea, because you people ignoring criticism is totally something that happens so rarely, when you see it in print it's funny. Or something.