• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

The Trump Presidency VII

Status
Not open for further replies.
Captain_Swoop said:
I recommend watching the BBC documentary series 'The Nazis: A Warning from History'
Click to expand...

Fast Eddie B said:
I have read “The Rise And Fall of the Third Reich” at least 3 times.

Must reading. Chilling in the gradual descent of Germany from a Democratic Republic to what it became under Hitler. I believe it’s available online as a pdf.

Also highly recommended:

[qimg]https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71KxsOAm77L._AC_UL320_SR244,320_.jpg[/qimg]

Same author’s real-time impressions as a reporter on the events of those years. Gives you a “you are there” perspective on the whole sordid mess.
Click to expand...

Thanks to both of you. I'll look for the BBC documentary and check out the book. I've read The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich twice. It is chilling.

The point that Logger is so easily being dismissive about is the erosion of democratic principles and liberty is gradual. We can never actually know a movie's ending for sure unless it is played out. But that doesn't mean we haven't seen the formula for the movie before.

Trump isn't Hitler, but that doesn't mean he isn't trying to be a dictator like Hitler. Hitler just like Trump was ELECTED! Hitler just like Trump derided the press and the government. Hitler just like Trump pushed an ultra-national agenda. Hitler just like Trump lied a lot to his citizens. The list goes on. But most of these things are true about any authoritarian leader and that is the point.
 
quadraginta said:
You already had. That's what I was responding to.

I was just giving you an opportunity to clarify your answer, since it was open to misinterpretation.

But I see that you don't feel there was any misinterpretation.
Click to expand...

I can only assume you know what the rolling eyes mean, I can clarify that. Thinking Trump is going to be able to decree the final solution is THE next level in fantasy thinking. There isn’t one bit of critical thought in that and I’m not in that place with you. It is literally impossible in this country. It would literally have to be voted in by the people after many decades of opponents working against it. And both demorats and republicans would work against it.

It is simply foolishness. But it seems many here believe it.
 
acbytesla said:
Thanks to both of you. I'll look for the BBC documentary and check out the book. I've read The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich twice. It is chilling.

The point that Logger is so easily being dismissive about is the erosion of democratic principles and liberty is gradual. We can never actually know a movie's ending for sure unless it is played out. But that doesn't mean we haven't seen the formula for the movie before.

Trump isn't Hitler, but that doesn't mean he isn't trying to be a dictator like Hitler. Hitler just like Trump was ELECTED! Hitler just like Trump derided the press and the government. Hitler just like Trump pushed an ultra-national agenda. Hitler just like Trump lied a lot to his citizens. The list goes on. But most of these things are true about any authoritarian leader and that is the point.
Click to expand...

Democracy has no defense when the People and all government institutions decide to turn their backs on it, none. Which is why it is good to remember that all of modernity is learned, and can be lost by simply not stepping out of the cave to embrace what was so painstakingly left at one's feet at great cost. Speaks to the decades-long campaign to debase public education and concentrate the media free speech depends on. Net non-neutrality and media+content monopolies being a nice touch, by the way.
 
logger said:
I can only assume you know what the rolling eyes mean, I can clarify that. Thinking Trump is going to be able to decree the final solution is THE next level in fantasy thinking. There isn’t one bit of critical thought in that and I’m not in that place with you. It is literally impossible in this country. It would literally have to be voted in by the people after many decades of opponents working against it. And both demorats and republicans would work against it.

It is simply foolishness. But it seems many here believe it.
Click to expand...


I don't think you know what either of those words mean.
 
logger said:
I can only assume you know what the rolling eyes mean, I can clarify that. Thinking Trump is going to be able to decree the final solution is THE next level in fantasy thinking. There isn’t one bit of critical thought in that and I’m not in that place with you. It is literally impossible in this country. It would literally have to be voted in by the people after many decades of opponents working against it. And both demorats and republicans would work against it.

It is simply foolishness. But it seems many here believe it.
Click to expand...

You don't have a clue in that white redneck bubble you're living in. We've seen democratic republics come and go in almost every country in the western hemisphere except the US and Canada. They come from the left such as Fidel Castro and they come from the right like Pinochet. It doesn't really matter. It still is authoritarian rule.

You have said many times how you want one party conservative rule. What is that but a dictatorship? Ever been to those countries Logger? They are a disaster. A permanent upper class and a permanent lower class etched in granite.
 
acbytesla said:
You don't have a clue in that white redneck bubble you're living in. We've seen democratic republics come and go in almost every country in the western hemisphere except the US and Canada. They come from the left such as Fidel Castro and they come from the right like Pinochet. It doesn't really matter. It still is authoritarian rule.

You have said many times how you want one party conservative rule. What is that but a dictatorship? Ever been to those countries Logger? They are a disaster. A permanent upper class and a permanent lower class etched in granite.
Click to expand...

He looks at Russia and says he wants that here. Putin is the kind of leader he would choose.
 
Just a comment on "can't happen here".

How far away is a final solution from the Japanese internment camps of WWII? The Tuskegee Syphilis experiment? The Trail of Tears?

Thinking it can't happen here is precisely the reason it can happen here.

Just like the basic tenet of magicians and conmen is that the easiest person to fool is the one sure they can't be fooled.
 
Hellbound said:
Just a comment on "can't happen here".

How far away is a final solution from the Japanese internment camps of WWII? The Tuskegee Syphilis experiment? The Trail of Tears?

Thinking it can't happen here is precisely the reason it can happen here.

Just like the basic tenet of magicians and conmen is that the easiest person to fool is the one sure they can't be fooled.
Click to expand...

There is nothing currently in operation to stop America from being a dictatorship but the opposition by people of influence in business, government, the military and the judiciary.

There is nothing in operation to ensure that goodwill stays in place.
 
acbytesla said:
Thanks to both of you. I'll look for the BBC documentary and check out the book. I've read The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich twice. It is chilling.

The point that Logger is so easily being dismissive about is the erosion of democratic principles and liberty is gradual. We can never actually know a movie's ending for sure unless it is played out. But that doesn't mean we haven't seen the formula for the movie before.

Trump isn't Hitler, but that doesn't mean he isn't trying to be a dictator like Hitler. Hitler just like Trump was ELECTED! Hitler just like Trump derided the press and the government. Hitler just like Trump pushed an ultra-national agenda. Hitler just like Trump lied a lot to his citizens. The list goes on. But most of these things are true about any authoritarian leader and that is the point.
Click to expand...

Actuallyl, Hitler was not elected in Germany by a election He became chancellor because of a shady back room political deal engineered by a number of conservatives under the illusion they could "COntrol" him.
There are certainly unsettling parallels , but the idea that Hitler was elected in the same way a US president is elected is just inaccurate.
Re 'Rise and Fall Of The Third Reich " good book, but was published over 50 years ago, and a lot of new material on Nazi Germany has since come to light.
I recommend "The Third Reich:A New History"by Michael Burliegh, or Robert Evans massive 3 volume history of the Third Reich (If you are ambitious) .or Ian Kershaw's biography of Hilter as a good follow up, incorporating more recent scholarship.
 
dudalb said:
Actuallyl, Hitler was not elected in Germany by a election He became chancellor because of a shady back room political deal engineered by a number of conservatives under the illusion they could "COntrol" him.
There are certainly unsettling parallels , but the idea that Hitler was elected in the same way a US president is elected is just inaccurate.
Re 'Rise and Fall Of The Third Reich " good book, but was published over 50 years ago, and a lot of new material on Nazi Germany has since come to light.
I recommend "The Third Reich:A New History"by Michael Burliegh, or Robert Evans massive 3 volume history of the Third Reich (If you are ambitious) .or Ian Kershaw's biography of Hilter as a good follow up, incorporating more recent scholarship.
Click to expand...


Yeah, you're right. Hitler finished second to Hindenburg who was 84 and not in the best of health and Hindenburg sort of just gave the Presidency to Hitler based on false promises. Once in power Hitler abolished the office and made himself Fuhrer. I'm not sure why I wrote that. Getting old and senile is my guess.
 
Trump falls more in the mold of Mussolini than Hitler. Obsessed with power, horrendously vain, and not particularly driven by any larger ideology other than personal aggrandizement. More cynical opportunism than coherent political philosophy. Make Italy the Great Empire Again!
 
Last edited:
acbytesla said:
You don't have a clue in that white redneck bubble you're living in. We've seen democratic republics come and go in almost every country in the western hemisphere except the US and Canada. They come from the left such as Fidel Castro and they come from the right like Pinochet. It doesn't really matter. It still is authoritarian rule.

You have said many times how you want one party conservative rule. What is that but a dictatorship? Ever been to those countries Logger? They are a disaster. A permanent upper class and a permanent lower class etched in granite.
Click to expand...

Lol

The United States is not those countries. How convenient that you forget most of them are from the left?
 
acbytesla said:
Yeah, you're right. Hitler finished second to Hindenburg who was 84 and not in the best of health and Hindenburg sort of just gave the Presidency to Hitler based on false promises. Once in power Hitler abolished the office and made himself Fuhrer. I'm not sure why I wrote that. Getting old and senile is my guess.
Click to expand...

I’ll accept your apology any time.
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
Trump falls more in the mold of Mussolini than Hitler. Obsessed with power, horrendously vain, and not particularly driven by any larger ideology other than personal aggrandizement. More cynical opportunism that coherent political philosophy. Make Italy the Great Empire Again!
Click to expand...

And I have a feeling any military adventures Trump launches to feed his ego will end up the same way that Mussolini's did....
 
logger said:
Lol

The United States is not those countries. How convenient that you forget most of them are from the left?
Click to expand...

No it's not.....yet. But that is what happens when citizens are not vigil. And no, most of them are not from the left.
 
dudalb said:
And I have a feeling any military adventures Trump launches to feed his ego will end up the same way that Mussolini's did....
Click to expand...

I have a feeling he will follow his military team to the tee! He’s obviously not the military type.
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
Trump falls more in the mold of Mussolini than Hitler. Obsessed with power, horrendously vain, and not particularly driven by any larger ideology other than personal aggrandizement. More cynical opportunism that coherent political philosophy. Make Italy the Great Empire Again!
Click to expand...

I agree. He brought back symbols from the Roman Empire symbol 'fascio littorio' which is a bundle of sticks tied together to represent that they are strong together.
 
acbytesla said:
I agree. He brought back symbols from the Roman Empire symbol 'fascio littorio' which is a bundle of sticks tied together to represent that they are strong together.
Click to expand...

I hate to tell you this, but that has been a symbol of the US Senate from it's creation. The Fasces was a originally a symbol of the Senate during the Roman Republic.
It was swiped by the Roman Emperors.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom