Brexit: Now What? Part IV

[Lothian]

Credit cards, banking, paying for utilities and council tax, employment, vehicle tax and insurance, housing, .... all require identity checks.

Sure, if they have no legal employment, no legal abode, no bank account, pay for everything with cash, don't pay any tax, don't own a vehicle, then they could go undetected indefinitely.

To summarise, illegal immigrants coming here to work, pay tax and contribute to the well being of the country will be stopped. Criminals will be allowed to operate unhindered. Genius policy.

Is this the taking back control of our borders that 37.5% of the electorate voted for?

 

[ceptimus]

I think that operating with the restrictions I outlined could hardly be described as 'unhindered'.

 

[Lothian]

I think that operating with the restrictions I outlined could hardly be described as 'unhindered'.

I think you are clueless about the criminal class.

 

[Klimax]

Reminder: There are black markets full of stolen identities and debit/credit cards. And quite cheaply.

 

[Lothian]

Reminder: There are black markets full of stolen identities and debit/credit cards. And quite cheaply.

Post brexit criminals coming here through our open border won't resort to that. As Ceptimus said they will, seek legal employment, register with the government to get council housing, open bank accounts, apply for genuine credit cards, will seek an NI number to pay tax and build up pension credits, will buy new cars from reputable garages with cash to trigger money laundering checks, register with the DVLA.

We will attract a better behaved criminal once we rid ourselves of the pesky European arrest warrant.

 

[The Don]

Yes. Really easy to do.

For a "normal" member of the public - you're right it would be difficult.

For someone who has entered the country illegally through a "professional" gang of people smugglers or someone with good "underworld" connections....

Reminder: There are black markets full of stolen identities and debit/credit cards. And quite cheaply.

IIRC, the vast majority of people who are in the country illegally have entered the country legally and have overstayed their visa/permission to remain. Given that EU citizens will likely to continue to enjoy the ability to enter the UK on holiday with minimal scrutiny (unless, post-Brexit, we're proposing single-use visas for EU citizens*) then it's likely that there will be plenty of EU citizens outstaying their visas, intentionally or unintentionally.

* - which would be incompatible with a soft border between NI and Ireland

 

[ponderingturtle]

It's impossible to totally prevent illegal immigrants, but after we've left the EU and such immigration can be made illegal then at least we can hope to catch and and repatriate or punish at least some of the criminals.

And that is why the good friday agreement will be toast because a hard border with Ireland is needed for that.

 

[Craig B]

EU requests: 14279
UK requests: 241

So which side loses out most by the EU's refusal to cooperate after Brexit?

All right, let's consider that. In the absence of European arrest warrants the U.K. would have an additional 14,279 residents consisting of individuals currently sought by the police of various EU countries, while the rest of the EU would contain only 241 such persons sought by U.K. Police forces. To whose advantage would that be?

 

[Information Analyst]

The outcome being a whole bunch of people being caught and punished for trying to put bread on their table (do UK employers face any consequences? In the U.S. it's a token fine/slap on the wrist).

"You can be sent to jail for 5 years and pay an unlimited fine if you’re found guilty of employing someone who you knew or had ‘reasonable cause to believe’ didn’t have the right to work in the UK....

You can also be penalised if you employ someone who doesn’t have the right to work and you didn’t do the correct checks, or you didn’t do them properly.

If this happens, you might get a ‘referral notice’ to let you know your case is being considered and that you might have to pay a civil penalty (fine) of up to £20,000 for each illegal worker." [Home Office]

 

[Craig B]

And that is why the good friday agreement will be toast because a hard border with Ireland is needed for that.

Just let them through and then imprison their children in cages. That should keep the island peaceful!

 

[Wildy]

Do you still wonder why we voted to stop free movement from the EU to the UK?

Because criminals in the UK have been living most their lives in a gangster's paradise?

 

[The Don]

The "Brave Sir Robins" in the rebel wing of the Conservative Party back down again after receiving vague words of assurance...

Ministers appear to have headed off a rebellion by Tory MPs minutes before a key vote on their say over Brexit.

Would-be rebels were set to force a showdown on what role Parliament will have in the event of no agreed deal.

But key figure Dominic Grieve said he was backing down after he was promised the Commons Speaker would decide whether a motion on what to do next if there is no deal can be amended by MPs.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44542156

IMO they should either get on board fully with Brexit or actually rebel (in the interests of their constituents). This pussyfooting around is just pathetic.....

 

[Delphic Oracle]

The "Brave Sir Robins" in the rebel wing of the Conservative Party back down again after receiving vague words of assurance...



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44542156

IMO they should either get on board fully with Brexit or actually rebel (in the interests of their constituents). This pussyfooting around is just pathetic.....

Internal party politics. Whips and other figures known to be crucial to heading off an embarrassing upset are elevated to more prestigious appointments later in their career. Sometimes this can even be cleverly orchestrated with a favor owed to the "rebellious member brought in line" by the beneficiary. A slim majority or coalition situation makes such drama possible.

 

[MikeG]

You think having thousands of un-extradicted potential criminals in the country is a "good" things?

Why would you assume that being outside the EAW system would mean no extradition between Europe and the UK? Is that simply for the sake of the argument?

 

[Wudang]

Why would you assume that being outside the EAW system would mean no extradition between Europe and the UK? Is that simply for the sake of the argument?

Outside the EAW extraditions will rely on formal extradition treaties between us and other nations.
A surprisingly short and readable guide here
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/extradition-processes-and-review

 

[Information Analyst]

Why would you assume that being outside the EAW system would mean no extradition between Europe and the UK? Is that simply for the sake of the argument?

No, it was in reaction to ceptimus's apparent attitude that we don't need the EAW as it benefits the rest of Europe more than the UK.

 

[catsmate]

So the UK becomes a safe haven for European criminals?

Lovely.

Many of them are British criminals who'll he blocked from easy access to the EU after Brexit. So they'll offend at home.

 

[catsmate]

Just let them through and then imprison their children in cages. That should keep the island peaceful!

There's not currently a lot of families fleeing across that border. Now one the NO and UK economies tank post-Brexit things may change...

 

[ceptimus]

Yes, perhaps we'll get camps of migrants along the south coast of England, desperately trying to make the illegal crossing to France.


This would be the reverse of what's been happening in recent years, and would be an indication that France is at last becoming a more attractive destination for migrants than Britain.

 

[Craig B]

Yes, perhaps we'll get camps of migrants along the south coast of England, desperately trying to make the illegal crossing to France.


This would be the reverse of what's been happening in recent years, and would be an indication that France is at last becoming a more attractive destination for migrants than Britain.

To achieve that desirable goal you are content to see the UK become a less attractive home for residents?