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The Trump Presidency VII

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logger said:
You already know what Obama did and what Trump changed. I’m not playing your games. Good to know the National Review is a CT site. That is next level.
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Logger you're being challenged on what you think "Obama did and what Trump changed." The National Review link you provided included the statement:
The past practice had been to give a free pass to an adult who is part of a family unit. The new Trump policy is to prosecute all adults. The idea is to send a signal that we are serious about our laws and to create a deterrent against re-entry.
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See the words, new Trump policy, comprende, amigo? In fact, I'll even provide you with a screen cap! ;)

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acbytesla said:
And your side is full of mean spirited jerks. The Dems have an agenda. You have constantly joked about destroying it. Things like prosperity, education, science, equality, compassion, tolerance, humanity, democracy.

Don't worry. We will. Most people have compassion for others. They have feelings. Even some Christians do. And these terrorist tactics will not play well.
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Mean spirited? The Dems aren’t about prosperity, they’re like the socialists, shared misery. They don’t seem to believe in tolerance and certainly have child like compassion. Which is why they’d vote for a knee jerk reaction like this current bill.
 
Segnosaur said:
It does not appear to be hurting his approval rating. But, on the other hand, it may be limiting it from growing.

To win an election you need to 1) bring in at least a few moderates/undecided, and/or 2) keep people from voting for the opposing side. Trump managed to sucker in a few people in the last election who thought "this guy will be good", who now think differently. And he is certainly galvanizing the opposition, to ensure fewer people will just stay home. (He's giving people a reason to come out and vote against him.)

So, Trump is stuck. He's got his racist base/core, but now that most people see how incompetent he is and how blatant his racism is (i.e. he didn't "pivot to the center" and start "acting presidential" like he claimed he was going to) and that he might actually attack some programs people actually like, he won't have much opportunity to build on that base.
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But how much of a swing does it take to rig things that even if he loses by a few percent more than he did last time he still wins?
 
newyorkguy said:
Logger you're being challenged on what you think "Obama did and what Trump changed." The National Review link you provided included the statement:


See the words, new Trump policy, comprende, amigo? In fact, I'll even provide you with a screen cap! ;)

.
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Well, since you decided to engage with discussion instead of playing little games like Upchurch. I can deal with and appreciate the snark. What do you think about that change? Trump admin says they’re arresting all adults now(that is the change) instead of just letting them go. It’s done to show these illegals we are serious about our laws. It is only for a brief period of time while the parents are processed.

Some here say it’s child abuse, even though it’s SOP when dealing with parents who have been arrested. No complaining about that since it’s been going on for decades with our own people who have been arrested.

https://www.nationalreview.com/2018...nforcement-separating-kids-at-border/#slide-1
 
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ponderingturtle said:
So, Trump is stuck. He's got his racist base/core, but now that most people see how incompetent he is and how blatant his racism is (i.e. he didn't "pivot to the center" and start "acting presidential" like he claimed he was going to) and that he might actually attack some programs people actually like, he won't have much opportunity to build on that base.
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But how much of a swing does it take to rig things that even if he loses by a few percent more than he did last time he still wins?
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Well, he lost the popular vote last time, and while he got the electoral college his margin was razor thin. So not much room for loss there.

Voter suppression may make a difference, but it was already in effect in a lot of places last election so there's not much more of an advantage he can get there. (And his committee to examine voter fraud went nowhere.)

Gerrymandering makes a difference in congress, but its less of an issue when voting for president because, well, electoral votes are typically based on the states rather than districts.
 
Segnosaur said:
Well, he lost the popular vote last time, and while he got the electoral college his margin was razor thin. So not much room for loss there.

Voter suppression may make a difference, but it was already in effect in a lot of places last election so there's not much more of an advantage he can get there. (And his committee to examine voter fraud went nowhere.)

Gerrymandering makes a difference in congress, but its less of an issue when voting for president because, well, electoral votes are typically based on the states rather than districts.
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Recall that Bush lost the popular vote the first time around but won handily in reelection. So do not discount the incumbent bump. Admittedly, Bush had the Iraq war to sell, which, at the time, was still sellable.
 
ponderingturtle said:
But being against this policy and being against Trump are not the same thing. His popularity seems to be solidly 40%.


Hitting up all the favorites of his voters that got him where he is.

Is this actually hurting his approval rating?
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I think it is too early to tell. That said, it's not really a secret that Trump is a despicable human being. A lot of his supporters, ie The Big Dog, Logger love that about him. They dont care that Trump is lying. They dont care that he's inhumane. They don't care that he is disloyal. These are features to them, not bugs. Just read Logger's posts. They hate science. They hates liberals. They hates people who aren't rich and white and are from the 50s. You're a loser if you are brown skinned and poor.

Figure Trump has a floor of 25 percent of these people and 8 to 21 percent that will hold their noses and maybe vote for him. These are going to be elections about turnout. The Republicans will be up to their eyeballs playing voter suppression. HOW MUCH THEY GET AWAY WITH will be the key. That and voter apathy.

I can't imagine this not hurting Trump unless its forgotten in the next 4 months. But it's not going to hurt Trump with his base.
 
pgwenthold said:
Recall that Bush lost the popular vote the first time around but won handily in reelection. So do not discount the incumbent bump. Admittedly, Bush had the Iraq war to sell, which, at the time, was still sellable.
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Not only Bush have the Iraq war to sell (that was still popular at the time), he also had 9/11 to fall back on.

It is true, a lot of presidents do increase their vote count in their second elections. But most presidents have had at least a tiny little bit of competence and ability to appeal to moderates/independents. With Trump, not so much.
 
phiwum said:
Removing him from office creates damage as well.
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Look that simply can't happen unless he loses the republican base. ANd I see no evidence that they will care no matter what crimes he is found to have committed.

Nixon lost a lot of his base with Bloody Sunday, but I am not sure minor hiccups like that would bother the Trump base.
 
phiwum said:
Removing him from office creates damage as well.
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At the very least the Democrats can hope to take the house and senate (admittedly the later is a long shot). Even if they don't remove Trump, they will limit his ability to pass more tax cuts for the rich and other foolish legislation. And if they take the senate they can keep him from installing any more right-wing zealots to the supreme court.

Granted, you will probably get a lot of gridlock, with congress passing legislation that Trump vetoes and Trump proposing legislation that goes nowhere, but its better than the GOP running roughshod.
 
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