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Brexit: Now What? Part IV

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The Don said:
How about 1 mile away ?

If the amendment is that specific then it'll have to be ignored instead because the Conservative government is hellbent on at least a "firm" Brexit if not a "hard" Brexit



Better than it moving to Paris or Frankfurt ?
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Its just been written into British law so how does that work?
 
Strawberry said:
Its just been written into British law so how does that work?
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A quiet amendment on a dull Tuesday afternoon when everyone's away ?

An argument based on "it depends on what your definition of is, is" ?

Insisting that the government did everything it could but those horrible meanies in the EU wouldn't accommodate its very reasonable request to have all the benefits of EU membership without the four freedoms and having to abide by EU laws and so the only way to avoid a "no deal" is to go for a deal which unfortunately puts a hard border in place pending technology which is surely just around the corner which will prevent a hard border*

Governments seem to find a way to disregard previous commitments.

* - even if technology magically-schmagically makes customs checks redundant, I cannot see how movement of people can be controlled without a hard border - and isn't keeping undesirables out keeping control of our borders one of the key drivers for Brexit
 
ceptimus said:
I think it's a fair assumption that the majority didn't vote for a watered down half-remain result that everyone agrees will be worse than what we had before (...)
To argue that any of the majority of voters that voted leave wanted such an outcome is a lie.
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Do you therefore accept my tentative suggestion that Brexiteers
Craig B said:
... were voting for the EU somehow to vanish from sight all at once. I suppose that means, more rationally, that the UK would simply walk away from it without formalities of any kind.

Members of ethnic minorities, whether from EU nationalities or not, reported Brexiteers telling them that they must leave the country "because that's what the British people voted for."
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The Don said:
A quiet amendment on a dull Tuesday afternoon when everyone's away ?

An argument based on "it depends on what your definition of is, is" ?

Insisting that the government did everything it could but those horrible meanies in the EU wouldn't accommodate its very reasonable request to have all the benefits of EU membership without the four freedoms and having to abide by EU laws and so the only way to avoid a "no deal" is to go for a deal which unfortunately puts a hard border in place pending technology which is surely just around the corner which will prevent a hard border*

Governments seem to find a way to disregard previous commitments.

* - even if technology magically-schmagically makes customs checks redundant, I cannot see how movement of people can be controlled without a hard border - and isn't keeping undesirables out keeping control of our borders one of the key drivers for Brexit
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If they're going to do that they will have to do it quickly - as in, before October. The EU will not be giving them a transition and a trade deal without concrete agreements which keep the Irish border as it is.
 
The Don said:
* - case in point. My local brewery, BaaBrewing, makes a range of excellent bitters and a really nice IPA - I wouldn't drink their pilsner again on a bet. The same is true of the Kingstone Brewery, great beers, really lousy lager. In both cases, they're also a lot more expensive than some pretty decent imported stuff.


*** edited to add ***
Less choice and a reliance on locally-made products feels like a return to the 1970s to me. At the time I was living in a small town in the North East of England. Consumer choice at the time was limited to say the least.
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Serves you right for drinking Lager.

As someone else that grew up in a North East town at the same time I had plenty of choice of good beers.
Theakstons, Sam Smiths, Camerons and Whitbread Castle Eden were all available. John Smiths Magnet was a superb beer until they stopped doing it as a Cask Ale.

ETA Weatherspoons are just making a cynical marketing move.
They know what their customer base thinks.
 
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Captain_Swoop said:
Weatherspoons are just making a cynical marketing move.
They know what their customer base thinks.
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I would seem they know very much what the usual customers for most of their stock lines are, and which they can change for a Union-flagged version imitation, and which they can't. Apparently they're not looking for a replacement for Kopparberg cider.
 
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Nick Robinson tweets

@bbcnickrobinson
"Let me see if I’ve understood what happened today. PM bought off a Remain revolt by convincing MPs they’d get a meaningful vote on deal but avoided Brexiteer revolt by saying she would not allow one. What can possibly go wrong? (Watching from Moscow so may have misunderstood ...)"
 
Captain_Swoop said:
Serves you right for drinking Lager.
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I don't when there's proper beer available ;)

Captain_Swoop said:
As someone else that grew up in a North East town at the same time I had plenty of choice of good beers.
Theakstons, Sam Smiths, Camerons and Whitbread Castle Eden were all available. John Smiths Magnet was a superb beer until they stopped doing it as a Cask Ale.
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I agree, and it's got even better in the meantime. We've started going back a lot more because of my dad's ill health. Now he's in a nursing home we can go out in the evening - back to my old regular. They now have six impeccably kept ales, Strongarm and Landlord are always on and then there are four local guest ales - brilliant.

Captain_Swoop said:
ETA Weatherspoons are just making a cynical marketing move.
They know what their customer base thinks.
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Yes probably.
 
Captain_Swoop said:
A 'Tap and Spile' pub?
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I don't think so, I think it's independent....

http://theoldwellinn.co.uk/

It's really strange starting to become semi-regular (we've been in about half a dozen times in the last three months) in a pub where you spent the majority of your youth. It's been completely revamped and redecorated but food and beer is as good as it was 30+ years ago.

We're now timing our visits to my dad to make sure we can make Thursday night open-mics...:o
 
ceptimus said:
...that the government promised in advance to honour the result of, and which has since been voted on and agreed multiple times by parliament, with further manifesto promises made by the winning party at the last general election...
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How meaningful are those votes in parliament when you have threats against MPs to vote a certain way:
https://www.politicshome.com/news/u...d-change-brexit-bill-stance-following-threats

"Prominent Tory backbencher Anna Soubry said colleagues were being spooked by angry voters over their positions on Brexit, and one would be unable to vote "in accordance with their conscience" as a result.

Ms Soubry also revealed that one MP had to be accompanied to a public event have six armed undercover officer because of death threats they had received over Brexit."

And:
"“At least one [MP] on these benches will today and tomorrow not vote in accordance with their conscience because of threats to their personal safety, to their parliamentary staff and members of their family,” she said.

“Mr Speaker, do you take that as a very serious threat to the democracy of this place?” she asked John Bercow."
 
ceptimus said:
Sadly Remain also came without an expiry date.
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Remain didn't "come" at all. Remain means no change. The measure voted on was leave. I agree that an "expiry date" is not relevant to such a decision.
 
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Captain_Swoop said:
Serves you right for drinking Lager.

As someone else that grew up in a North East town at the same time I had plenty of choice of good beers.
Theakstons, Sam Smiths, Camerons and Whitbread Castle Eden were all available. John Smiths Magnet was a superb beer until they stopped doing it as a Cask Ale.

ETA Weatherspoons are just making a cynical marketing move.
They know what their customer base thinks.
Click to expand...
Information Analyst said:
I would seem they know very much what the usual customers for most of their stock lines are, and which they can change for a Union-flagged version imitation, and which they can't. Apparently they're not looking for a replacement for Kopparberg cider.
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[OT]Slight deja-vu given the ep of Midsomer Murders we watched last night.
[/OT]
 
catsmate said:
A snap st twenty billion pounds per annum.
Or Stg£385M per week...
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That estimate was bollocks - it was based on an extrapolation of a round sum estimate of the cost of doing a single customs declaration. £20bn is roughly equivalent to half a million people being employed full-time doing customs declarations.:)
 
Aber said:
That estimate was bollocks - it was based on an extrapolation of a round sum estimate of the cost of doing a single customs declaration. £20bn is roughly equivalent to half a million people being employed full-time doing customs declarations.:)
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Well that's how you rationalised it upthread, I'm not aware that the study was that specific.

£20bn may well be equivalent to half a million people being employed full time. It may also be lots of people spending a few hours a week dealing with this sort of stuff, a few hundreds, thousands or tens of thousands of pounds being added to the monthly IT, process and hardware costs of an organisation together with whatever secure warehousing will be required if physical goods are being moved around.

My business deals almost exclusively with the EU (our UK business is almost trivial) and we deal in professional services. I'm not yet sure what kind of customs arrangements there will be but if they're anything like the hoops we had to jump through to do business in the US then it'll be torturous. In the end there wasn't that much business and we could afford to walk away from it, the same isn't true for the EU.


edited to add....

Sorry I was wrong :o, it was based on individual declarations but AFAIK the Nottingham business school did factor in economies of scale.
 
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