Amazer
Graduate Poster
- Joined
- Jun 23, 2008
- Messages
- 1,711
And it will make no difference whatsoever... JRM and the likes will still push their agenda through.
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And it will make no difference whatsoever... JRM and the likes will still push their agenda through.
quadraginta
Becoming Beth
ponderingturtle
Orthogonal Vector
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2006
- Messages
- 54,545
Exactly there is nothing more irrevocable that a non binding referendum.
...that the government promised in advance to honour the result of, and which has since been voted on and agreed multiple times by parliament, with further manifesto promises made by the winning party at the last general election...
But if it makes you happy, keep repeating the "non binding" mantra.
quadraginta
Becoming Beth
Plenty of things. And if the remainers ever allow the Brexit process to complete, then the things that were promised will have a chance of happening.
But as you know, the remainers are determined to dilute Brexit as much as possible, and delay it as long as possible...
But as you know, the remainers are determined to dilute Brexit as much as possible, and delay it as long as possible...
It's not my fault that the Cabinet can't agree what they want from Brexit.
It's not my fault that a lot of the hard Brexiteer demands are contradictory.
It is not my fault that the Northern Ireland Border issue is intractable.
I see that a version of 'Operation Stack' is now an official part of government policy. Was that 'promised'?
Delphic Oracle
Philosopher
- Joined
- Sep 17, 2016
- Messages
- 6,416
How are the remainers doing this over or around the will of parliamentary majorities?
Perhaps the Brexiteers are laughably incompetent and entirely out of their depth?
Nah, it's a cabal! It's a conspiracy!
This line of attack has, through history, been the opening gambit for civic repression and sectarian strife. Way to keep a sense of perspective.
Sent from my SM-J327P using Tapatalk
Like £350 million a week for the NHS? An end to EU immigration? A trade deal with Europe as good as or better than the one we have now? Well of course we know which one of those you actually care about...
Those don't count because they weren't on the ballot paper, a hard Brexit on the other hand was clearly what the 52% voted for.
ponderingturtle
Orthogonal Vector
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- Jul 11, 2006
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- 54,545
Exactly, the people voted for a hard border in Ireland there will be a hard border and Remoaners will not stop it.
Strawberry
Master Poster
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- Nov 6, 2011
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If they don't find a way to avoid a hard border, it will be hard Brexit on WTO terms.
If a hard border is built it will the EU that builds it: May has promised that she won't.
But there won't be a hard border: no one wants it - wait and see, and you'll then have to grudgingly admit I was right. The whole issue has been blown out of proportion by the EU as a negotiating tactic, and by remainers who clutch at any straw they think could prevent Brexit from occurring.
But there won't be a hard border: no one wants it - wait and see, and you'll then have to grudgingly admit I was right. The whole issue has been blown out of proportion by the EU as a negotiating tactic, and by remainers who clutch at any straw they think could prevent Brexit from occurring.
Strawberry
Master Poster
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- Nov 6, 2011
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If there's no agreement made which keeps NI in the customs union and to a large extent also in the single market, there will have to be a border on both sides under WTO rules. Or are you planning to leave the WTO too?
You have clearly drunk the Brexit kool aid - the Irish border was always going to be the biggest problem with Brexit, keeping it open is completely incompatible with the type of Brexit you've been promised, and not keeping it open is incompatible with the GFA. The only compromise feasible - soft Brexit for NI, hard Brexit for the rest of the UK - has been rendered impossible by May's dependence on the DUP for votes.
The arrogant, anglo-centric fools like Jacob Rees Mogg who sold Brexit to the masses assumed Ireland was too little and unimportant to cause any problems. The fools, the fools...
I find it interesting that you consider a hard border as required by the WTO to somehow be the EU's fault. Why is that when they would be bound by the same rules the UK is? Unless you're suggesting that the UK is leaving the WTO as well.
Don't panic! Wait and see what the border looks like after Brexit. When politicians on all sides agree that they don't want a hard border, why do you assume that some strange irresistible force means that a hard border will be constructed regardless? Politics and borders are things made up in human minds - not some unchangeable law of nature.
Sadly this is too often the case with things Brexit - no clear idea from the Leave group about what they want the future position to be and even when some kind of consensus is dragged kicking and screaming into existence there's no plan for actually implementing it.
You are right, there's no absolute need for a hard border. Instead we could have schemes like the ones currently being reviewed by the cabinet (either relying on firms to be perfectly honest and collect duties for you or relying on yet-to-be implemented technology to fill the gaps) but neither of those will deliver the only thing that Brexiteers seem to be consistently keen on - control over borders.
Unless there is hard border infrastructure between Ireland and Northern Ireland then there's no way of controlling the flow of people. The DUP is adamant that they do not want a hard border between NI and the rest of the UK so it looks like we're no longer in control of our borders
Wudang
BOFH
ftfy
I'm not, I'm sitting here 16513km from Belfast laughing at how stupidly inept things seem to be from the UKs side.
Right mates, you heard the man. We'd better pack this thread up and wait until Brexit happens and we find out where the UK sits on a scale from "everything's on fire" to "somehow the UK gets to stay in the club but have no responsibilities to it".
Because it's not actually clear that all sides do agree on this. I can't find anything saying that the WTO is willing to create a special exception to their rules when it comes to the border issue. The "strange irresistible force" in this case are the rules of the WTO.
Oh, so the EU and UK will be entering into negotiations with the WTO to change their rules governing customs, tariffs, and the flow of goods into markets in a way specially beneficial for them. I didn't know that was a thing that was happening.
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