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Intelligent Design

Iacchus said:
No, it's simply a matter understanding things don't just "pop up" out of thin air. And if you're unsure of what I'm saying here, perhaps you should go ask Merc?
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If it's a matter of understanding things, then you are not exactly the source I would trust. (Merc either, that bloody dense no-free-willer). Some things do "pop up" out of thin air, although you wouldn't believe it if the whole staff at M.I.T. tried to explain it to you.

Iacchus said:
I am merely saying that something cannot come from nothing and, that something (in all its complexity) has always existed. Which is to say, it's turtles all the way up.
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Except God, who according to you is the most complex thing in existence. Where's the bottom turtle, Iacchus? What is he standing on?
 
Tricky said:
Some things in nature branch? That's the rationale? :jaw-dropp

What about all the things in nature that don't branch, like stars, raindrops, snakes, your genealogical chart...
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All I'm suggesting is look at the design inherent in a single seed, which clearly shows that one thing proceeds from another. And yet, it's all part of the same overall design as a whole.
 
Iacchus said:
All I'm suggesting is look at the design inherent in a single seed, which clearly shows that one thing proceeds from another. And yet, it's all part of the same overall design as a whole.
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That's the way a seed works. Not everything comes from seeds. Your analogy fails on practically every level.
 
Tricky said:
That's the way a seed works. Not everything comes from seeds. Your analogy fails on practically every level.
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Every Universe ... which has life in it that is ... begins with a seed. ;)
 
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Upchurch said:
Yes, my tpying sonetines idn't so goop.

How, pray tell, does a seed have understanding or interpret experience when it lack the facilities to do so? Further, how do you determine that a seed performs these actions when it gives no sign whatsoever of even awareness?
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Well, if you planted a seed in the soil, and gave it a little water and some sunshine, and nothing happened, you might have a point.
 
Iacchus said:
Well, if you planted a seed in the soil, and gave it a little water and some sunshine, and nothing happened, you might have a point.
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This could not have anything less to do with the origin of the universe.
 
Iacchus said:
Every Universe ... which has life in it that is ... begins with a seed. ;)
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The issue here is that we don't know how the universe started, do we? We have some very good theories, yes, but no actual knowledge, eh?

You never know, the Church of the Great Arkleseizure could be right and we were sneezed out of a nose.
 
Iacchus said:
Of course there are more to trees than just branches you know. Sheesh!
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To be fair, Iacchus, the branches are the portion that you, yourself, focused on...

Iacchus said:
All you need do is look at the branches on a tree, where one thing stems from the next. Yet it's all inherent in the wisdom contained within a single seed.
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Taffer said:
And even if we granted you these two things, why must it be a god, and not something 'natural'?
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Well, how is it possible for something to exist prior to its inception, unless of course it were "planned" that way? Is this something nature is capable of doing of its own accord? Or, is nature merely a "by-product" of the same process?
 
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