What is the point of forced patriotism?

Mumbles said:
And never mind that they actually work far harder than most people - and as I recall often have to put up with the NCAA for years (and I could say plenty about that cartel, but it's a bit of an aside...). But yeah, you hear that a lot about black players in the NFL (and the NBA as well) who protest anything, or move to their home towns, or do anything to displease their so-called fans.

Never heard it about NHL players or NASCAR drivers, oddly.
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Well, I don't know NASCAR, but I'm unfamiliar with any NHL players publicly protesting. As far as moving to another team, sometimes you hear fans bickering, but I never understood it. As long as the player played his best when he was paid for my team, I've nothing against his moving, for whatever reasons.

It's possible the difference in the NHL and the NFL or NBA is due to skin color, but I am in no position to know whether that's so.
 
The point isn't patriotism. The point is that the NFL wants everyone regardless of political views, to pay for tickets, buy concessions and watch on various media for ad revenue. This isn't a black or white issue. The only color the NFL cares about is green.
 
Craig4 said:
The point isn't patriotism. The point is that the NFL wants everyone regardless of political views, to pay for tickets, buy concessions and watch on various media for ad revenue. This isn't a black or white issue. The only color the NFL cares about is green.
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As I (sarcastically) pointed out above, "I'm not racist but my customers are and that's why I discriminate" is not acceptable for other businesses. Why is it ok for the NFL?
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
Also, successful black people not showing enough gratitude. They should be thankful to their white masters for allowing them to make money playing ball.

I think it's ridiculous the hard line the NFL is taking here. The players are highly skilled professionals, they should have a lot of say into how the league is run. I hope the players association hits back hard against this management over-reach.
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Well, since every football player is a gazillionaire who's set for life, why shouldn't they be grateful?
 
Craig4 said:
The point isn't patriotism. The point is that the NFL wants everyone regardless of political views, to pay for tickets, buy concessions and watch on various media for ad revenue. This isn't a black or white issue. The only color the NFL cares about is green.
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And yet they've angered a substantial part of their customers in this move, as well as apparently the players.
 
Craig4 said:
The point isn't patriotism. The point is that the NFL wants everyone regardless of political views, to pay for tickets, buy concessions and watch on various media for ad revenue. This isn't a black or white issue. The only color the NFL cares about is green.
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People keep bringing this up as if it's the only issue, whether or not the NFL has the right to fine them.

Even if they do, I also have the right to call them hypocritical ********, and criticize them. As others have pointed out, if they are forced to go through these theatrics, it essentially means nothing, so why do people get angry? If you don't agree with them, ignore them. If you do agree with them and take notice, it shows that their chosen method of protest is at least somewhat effective, and stifling that expression is a social issue.

ETA: In fact, when the kneeling first started, I didn't pay much attention. But now that they are essentially being "gagged" by their employers, and also by the government, since they are paying for it, I am paying more attention. I don't like people being told to shut up by TPTB, and it's a sincere concern with myself and others. This is probably the exact opposite of what the NFL wanted to happen.
 
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Craig4 said:
The point isn't patriotism. The point is that the NFL wants everyone regardless of political views, to pay for tickets, buy concessions and watch on various media for ad revenue. This isn't a black or white issue. The only color the NFL cares about is green.
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Fine, if your point is they have a right as employers to force political speech on employees while muffling that same speech on the part of the latter. I beg to differ that this is appropriate in democracy.

Further, you abstract the context to its transactional nature to the exclusion of other elements, when that aspect is certainly only part of the overall social context. After all, how could anthems even matter if the event and its workings did not extend far beyond the merely transactional? Beware economics: "utility" is a surrogate variable, masking, gosh, complex reality. Reality must be put back into the picture before ever attempting to make social policy, or policy with a significant social dimension, on the basis of economics or the rules of business.

Your point also is that this is not a black or white issue, when the controversial acts in question are, as a matter of record, due to the treatment of blacks. The recent decision made by the networks is within that context, extending beyond the transactional. This part of your position is, then, contrary to fact.
 
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Hlafordlaes said:
Fine, if your point is they have a right as employers to force political speech on employees while muffling that same speech on the part of the latter. I beg to differ that this is appropriate in democracy.
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When an employee is on the clock, I don't think it's unreasonable for an employer to insist that they not engage in political speech contrary to the interests of the employer. It's much more problematic when employers try to regulate speech of employees outside of work hours, but that's not what's going on here.
 
Ziggurat said:
When an employee is on the clock, I don't think it's unreasonable for an employer to insist that they not engage in political speech contrary to the interests of the employer. It's much more problematic when employers try to regulate speech of employees outside of work hours, but that's not what's going on here.
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Agreed, by and large, but while I think the NFL is within its rights, it's not a good decision.
 
phiwum said:
Agreed, by and large, but while I think the NFL is within its rights, it's not a good decision.
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They should have stopped it at the start, before ratings took a hit. Now nobody is happy with them.

I'm satisfied with that outcome, though. Screw the NFL, they suck.
 
Ziggurat said:
When an employee is on the clock, I don't think it's unreasonable for an employer to insist that they not engage in political speech contrary to the interests of the employer. It's much more problematic when employers try to regulate speech of employees outside of work hours, but that's not what's going on here.
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It is different when the employer starts engaging in the political speech during work hours.
 
It is good for the nation if all publicly worship in the imperial cult! Anything less is simultaneous treason and blasphemy. Treshphemy! The punishment for treshphemy is to be flogged to death, then executed, then imprisoned for five years, then pay a fine. On the second offense the punishment is harsher, poor encourager Les Archer.
 
Ziggurat said:
When an employee is on the clock, I don't think it's unreasonable for an employer to insist that they not engage in political speech contrary to the interests of the employer. It's much more problematic when employers try to regulate speech of employees outside of work hours, but that's not what's going on here.
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I disagree with the hilited. Allow all of it, or none of it.
 
The controversy has become not about what the protestors are protesting, but the protest itself.
And, frankly, the snide attitude of the left toward any display of patriotism is playing into the hands of the right. This has been a piece of idiocy that has been going on for some time.
George Orwell had some interesting things to say about how in his day the left's sneering on patriotrism was backfiring.
 
Patriotism in the US is 99% stupid:instead of actually doing something for your country, you attack whoever you think doesn't praise it enough.
And Bonespurs is the archetype of this phenomenon.
 
The full on racists don't offend me much. At least it is a conscious choice. I'm really bothered by people that say the millionaires shouldn't be complaining. I can't wrap my head around the fact they can't even make it to a few steps of thought. They can't even speak to the concept that people with money are able and willing to emphasize with the plight of others.
 
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