Cont: JFK Conspiracy Theories VI: Lyndon Johnson's Revenge

[HSienzant]

It appears you want Oswald treated differently than everyone else.

https://www.sapling.com/7844386/tax-returns-public-record
Tax returns are not public record; they are private. Tax returns contain confidential information that is not readily available to the public. With the increasing number of online tax filing services, some information is being used and sold publicly, but that is not advocated by the Internal Revenue Service (IRS). Unless there is a legal reason to disclose information on a tax return, the information is not available for public access.


https://www.lawguru.com/legal-quest...x-returns-public-record-considered-701314696/
Re: Are tax returns public record?
Tax returns are not public records. They are actually protected by law and in many cases (for instance, under federal law) it is a crime to disclose tax return information for any reason other than specific and limited exceptions.

As I said:

Cite the relevant text and explain why this prevent his tax returns from being included in the mandate given in The JFK Records Act.

Nope, it's your issue. You need to cite why the IRS rules should be overturned because "Oswald".

Anything else is a attempt to shift the burden of proof. Ball is in your court. Show where the ARRB act overturned existing U.S. law concerning the secrecy of individual's U.S. tax returns. Show that Oswald's tax return (he only filed one since his return from Russia) is specifically named as being included or excluded.

We'll wait.

We'll wait forever, because you're just repeating some nonsense you read online from some conspiracy site.

Hank

 

[manifesto]

No, I'm making a joke at the NE's expense. The fr. page says that they named gunmen #2 .

My mistake:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12303146&postcount=3549

 

[manifesto]

​

Nope, it's your issue. You need to cite why the IRS rules should be overturned because "Oswald".

Anything else is a attempt to shift the burden of proof. Ball is in your court. Show where the ARRB act overturned existing U.S. law concerning the secrecy of individual's U.S. tax returns. Show that Oswald's tax return (he only filed one since his return from Russia) is specifically named as being included or excluded.

We'll wait.

We'll wait forever, because you're just repeating some nonsense you read online from some conspiracy site.

Hank

The Act requires that each assassination record be publicly disclosed in full and be made available in the collection no later than the date that is 25 years after the date of enactment of the Act (which was October 26, 2017), unless the President of the United States certifies that:

(1) continued postponement is made necessary by an identifiable harm to the military defense, intelligence operations, law enforcement, or conduct of foreign relations; and

(2) the identifiable harm is of such gravity that it outweighs the public interest in disclosure.​

And:

"An assassination record includes, but is not limited to, all records, public and private, regardless of how labeled or identified, that document, describe, report on, analyze, or interpret activities, persons, or events reasonably related to the assassination of President John F. Kennedy and investigations of or inquiries into the assassination."​

- Oswald was the alleged assassin of JFK.

- The HSCA concluded that the assassination was the result from a conspiracy.

Explain why Oswalds tax returns is of no relevance as an ”assassination record” or why 1 and/or 2 should be invoked.

 

[RoboTimbo]

A Mauser turning Carcano turning murder weapon, yes.

What Mauser are you referring to?

Wrong. There is a DPD dictabelt recording of channel-1 and five rifle shots of which one is from the picket fence on the knoll within a square yard.

What five rifle shots are you talking about?

 

[jeffas69]

Ok, you wrote:
Go further? How? Why?


I’m talking of two of the witnesses standing at the Houston-Elm intersection testifying that they heard shots in the direction of the triple underpass.

The ”knoll” is alligned with the triple underpass if you are standing at the intersection. That is, it is the same direction. Knoll = triple underpass, if standing at the intersection = shot from in front.

Yes, their testimony is weaker for the ”knoll” but it doesn’t exclude it since the direction is the same from where they where standing.

Ok?

You skipped something. Go back to 3515 and read it. See if you can catch my drift. Hank responded in the very next post showing that he understood me perfectly. Go ahead and read that one as well while you are there.

 

[HSienzant]

The Act requires that each assassination record be publicly disclosed in full and be made available in the collection no later than the date that is 25 years after the date of enactment of the Act (which was October 26, 2017), unless the President of the United States certifies that:

(1) continued postponement is made necessary by an identifiable harm to the military defense, intelligence operations, law enforcement, or conduct of foreign relations; and

(2) the identifiable harm is of such gravity that it outweighs the public interest in disclosure.​

And:

"An assassination record includes, but is not limited to, all records, public and private, regardless of how labeled or identified, that document, describe, report on, analyze, or interpret activities, persons, or events reasonably related to the assassination of President John F. Kennedy and investigations of or inquiries into the assassination."​

- Oswald was the alleged assassin of JFK.

- The HSCA concluded that the assassination was the result from a conspiracy.

Explain why Oswalds tax returns is of no relevance as an ”assassination record” or why 1 and/or 2 should be invoked.

No.

- Explain why it's of relevance and how it fits the specific criteria you quoted above: "document, describe, report on, analyze, or interpret activities, persons, or events reasonably related to the assassination of President John F. Kennedy and investigations of or inquiries into the assassination." A tax return from 1962 hardly seems to fit.

- Explain why the JFK records act takes priority over the IRS laws protecting individuals' tax returns.

- Maybe it's already been released and your web source is out of date or just wrong?

- What is your source for this claim, by the way? Did you just make it up?

Hank

 

[bknight]

Where did I ”indicate” this?

When you proposed a shooter in the grassy knoll

Why?

Why the science refutes your claims of a shooter in the front. Try reading the material, there is some math but an intelligent person as yourself should have no trouble with the methods and the conclusions. Those conclusions destroy any possible shooter from the front.

 

[bknight]

[snip]
My contention is that the autopsy was controlled not by the pathologists but by high military brass for reasons of ”National Security”.

Citation for this bare assertion.

1. The autopsy report is deliberatly vague.

Please display your doctors degree and then further your training as a forensic pathologist

2. The autopsy doctors later testified to wounds not compatible with the official story of two shots from behind.

How many years were "later" do you think the memory might be less certain than the report from the night before?

3. Almost everyone who observered the head wounds close up testified to a big gaping wound in the right back of the head. Doctors, nurses, forensic pathologists, forensic photographers, FBI agents and Secret Sevice Agents, from three hospitals and two federal police agencies.
A big gaping wound in the right back of the head.


Not visible in the x-rays or the autopsy photographs.

Citation for this bare assertion.

Ask Occam.

That is because there as no gaping wound in the back of the head to see or x-ray. Mr. Occam would totally disagree with your contentions, the simplest explanation is one man from the TSBD, firing three shots, missing one and hitting two, with the last assassinating JFK.

 

[manifesto]

When you proposed a shooter in the grassy knoll

Ok, you wrote:

Yes completely disproving a shot from the right front. As manifesto indicated​

As if I indicated somewhere that it ”completely disproving ... ”, but I get it now. No, I’m not ”indicating” a shot from the knoll, I’m stating it as a proven scientific fact corroborated by most of the asked witnesses in Dealey Plaza, almost everyone observing JFK’s head wounds close up —-> big gaping whole in the right back of the head —-> exit wound —-> shot from in front, the Zapruder film —-> head snapping violently back and to the left when bullet hit the head, etc, etc.

I’m stating it as a proven fact.

Why the science refutes your claims of a shooter in the front.

Cite it. Explain.

Try reading the material, there is some math but an intelligent person as yourself should have no trouble with the methods and the conclusions. Those conclusions destroy any possible shooter from the front.

Cite it. Explain.

Show me.

 

[Axxman300]

No. Based on my extensive reading of the research published in books, articles and documentary film, the last 50 plus years.

Clearly lacking.

Nonsense. It is against the law even to threatening of revealing military secrets to a foreign state. Oswald was still formally in the Marines and considering his knowledge of radar installations all over the Pacific theater and in proximity to the top secret U2 flights over China and Soviet, he should have been arrested on the spot, brought back to the US, court marshalled and put away for a very long time.

It's not the job of US Embassies to arrest people.

If it not were a well rehersed act, that is.

No, he was just another idiot,

What? How did Oswald know that Helsinki was the only place in the world where he could get a visa to the Soviet Union in a couple of days, when this knowledge was restricted to a very limited few belonging to the State Department and the CIA?

The United States is full of public libraries as are all military bases. This was not restricted information, and Oswald (unlike you) was well read.

He had to been flying from London to Helsinki if the documented time schedule is correct. Problem is, no comercial flights was available at the time period Oswald stayed in London.

Oswald saved $1,000, which was easy for a young Maine with no social life and no gambling habit. His ship to England cost $220. There were 3 commercial flights available from London to Helsinki, two being indirect flights with stopovers.

So, who flew him to Helsinki?

He bought a ticket.

He stayed at the two most expencive hotels in Helsinki.

He had the money, and he was headed to the "Worker's Paradise" where he would no longer need it.

What? Why would the Red Cross support a US Marine defecting to communist Soviet Union? He earned more than the boss of the factory he worked in, in Minsk.

Communism sucks, even Oswald found that out.

Can they not? But they can have their passports withdrawn if they threatens to commit treason, couldn’t they?

Defecting isn't treason. Plus, he would have to be convicted of treason.

A Marine defecting to the enemy, renouncing his citizenship, threatening to disclose all he knows from his service as a radar operator in the Pacific, next door to CIA’s most top secret U2 spying over same Soviet enemy, and they pay for his and his new family’s return ticket back home? No questions asked?

Are you kidding me?

Sure, why not? They knew Oswald was a sad-sack loser now stuck with a kid, and they didn't want him becoming a problem for some European country. Plus, they likely felt sorry for him.

Lol. They were not interested in what Oswald may have disclosed to the enemy? How about the U2 being shot down over Russia a couple of months after Oswald defected? How about all the radar codes and everything else he could have given the enemy?

CIA was not, interested? Are you kidding?

The CIA would have known that the Soviets ALREADY HAD THAT INFO (the KGB was really good). The USMC never went after him which should tell you everything you need to know about what Oswald knew and what secrets he would have had access to.

You leave out the part where the RUSSIANS DIDN'T WANT HIM AND TOLD HIM TO GO HOME. Oswald attempted to kill himself forcing them to change their minds.

Now let's look at your grasp of CIA operational logic:

They finally get an operative into the Soviet Union as a defector. He knocks up a local girl at his Tier-One infiltration mission posing as a factory worker at a TV factory. Instead of staying in Russia and laying down roots with a family - LIKE A SLEEPER AGENT WOULD...he comes back to the US.

How is any of this look like an intelligence operation?

 

[Axxman300]

Ok, you wrote:

Yes completely disproving a shot from the right front. As manifesto indicated​

As if I indicated somewhere that it ”completely disproving ... ”, but I get it now. No, I’m not ”indicating” a shot from the knoll, I’m stating it as a proven scientific fact corroborated by most of the asked witnesses in Dealey Plaza, almost everyone observing JFK’s head wounds close up —-> big gaping whole in the right back of the head —-> exit wound —-> shot from in front, the Zapruder film —-> head snapping violently back and to the left when bullet hit the head, etc, etc.

I’m stating it as a proven fact.

Proven where?

There is no exit wound in the back of the head visible in any of the films.

It doesn't exist.

Here is the most recent scientific study specifically of the movement of JFK's head when he was SHOT FROM BEHIND:

https://www.heliyon.com/article/e00603

I doubt you will read it, you can't use crayons.

 

[bknight]

[snip nonsense]
I’m stating it as a proven fact.

You haven't proven anything, except that you can hand wave evidence with the best.

Cite it. Explain.

Axxman300 posted the links, I just read.

https://www.heliyon.com/article/e00603

Now as for explaining, I'll not do your homework, you read it, if you have questions submit them to Mr. Nicolas R Nalli, be sure to tell him your know what happened at Dealey Plaza.
Cite it. Explain.[/quote]
Same description, I'll not do your homework. Read the material.

Show me.[/QUOTE]
Read the material, the paper will destroy your proven fact.

 

[bknight]

Proven where?

There is no exit wound in the back of the head visible in any of the films.

It doesn't exist.

Here is the most recent scientific study specifically of the movement of JFK's head when he was SHOT FROM BEHIND:

https://www.heliyon.com/article/e00603

I doubt you will read it, you can't use crayons.

You and I know full well he will not read it, as it disproves his pet theory, Just can't knock science.

 

[Axxman300]

The Act requires that each assassination record be publicly disclosed in full and be made available in the collection no later than the date that is 25 years after the date of enactment of the Act (which was October 26, 2017), unless the President of the United States certifies that:

(1) continued postponement is made necessary by an identifiable harm to the military defense, intelligence operations, law enforcement, or conduct of foreign relations; and

(2) the identifiable harm is of such gravity that it outweighs the public interest in disclosure.​

And:

"An assassination record includes, but is not limited to, all records, public and private, regardless of how labeled or identified, that document, describe, report on, analyze, or interpret activities, persons, or events reasonably related to the assassination of President John F. Kennedy and investigations of or inquiries into the assassination."​

- Oswald was the alleged assassin of JFK.

- The HSCA concluded that the assassination was the result from a conspiracy.

Explain why Oswalds tax returns is of no relevance as an ”assassination record” or why 1 and/or 2 should be invoked.

Here's a clue: Nobody paid him to kill the President.

Here's a tip: If somebody did pay him he wouldn't have filled out a W-2. It would have been cash.

The problem you now face is that his tax return is now on microfilm.

 

[Axxman300]

1. The HSCA said the entry wound and exit wound were 5 inches apart.

2. The HSCA said that both holes in the skull could be seen at the same time on the open-cranium photographs.

3. The cranium is empty in the open-cranium photographs.

You haven't seen all of the photographs.

 

[Axxman300]

You and I know full well he will not read it, as it disproves his pet theory, Just can't knock science.

He's lazy, for a CIA PR guy.

 

[HSienzant]

Here's a clue: Nobody paid him to kill the President.

Here's a tip: If somebody did pay him he wouldn't have filled out a W-2. It would have been cash.

The problem you now face is that his tax return is now on microfilm.

 

[RoboTimbo]

I’m stating it as a proven fact.

Proving how uneducated you are about the assassination.

Did you ever say why Oswald went on to murder Officer Tippitt after assassinating JFK? Do you think you could learn why?

 

[pgwenthold]

What Mauser are you referring to?


What five rifle shots are you talking about?

In the post above yours, manifesto referred (correctly) to the HSCA conclusion that there was a conspiracy. But the HSCA also concluded that there were only 4 shots.

So is tbe HSCA right or not? Manifesto apparently does not accept the findings of the HSCA, so why ahpuld we?

 

[BStrong]

No, he wasn’t. He was a low level US Intel agent way in over his head, not knowing he was sheep dipped as a patsy for the assassination of president Kennedy.

To suggest otherwise is plain stupid or accessories after the fact.

In a popular fiction world.

For fact based reality, not so much.

LHO was a little man that wanted to be a big man in the worst way, without the skills or ambition to get him where he wanted to go, short of using a firearm.

Lot's of like-minded individuals acting out the same mental deficiencies and limitations in evidence in America today.