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"Progressives" Win Big Over Establishment Democrats

LSSBB said:
Or:

Trump may hand the country to Progressives in 2020. Not what I want, but how do you think we ended up with Obama 2008?
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Centrist Obama?

Yeah he spent half his time trying to 'compromise' with Republicans who had already made up their minds that they were going to try to stop him at every turn.
 
Why millennials are drawn to socialism
The University of Chicago’s GenForward Survey of Americans age 18 to 34 finds that 62 percent think “we need a strong government to handle today’s complex economic problems,” with just 35 percent saying “the free market can handle these problems without government being involved.”
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And...
For eight years, as the economy steadily improved, many Republicans denounced President Barack Obama as a socialist out to demolish the free market. Obama left office with a 77 percent approval rating among millennials. If he was a socialist, many of them must have decided, socialism can’t be so bad.
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But by all means conservatives, let's continue objectifying the left in a cartoonish manner, devoid of reality.
 
logger said:
Telling the truth about socialism isn’t cartoonish. The only reason millennial like socialism is because they’re young and incredibly lazy. They love living off others and receiving FREEBIES.
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Oh well. I guess conservatoids have nothing to lose by badmouthing the millennials who are gearing up to drain all that blue algae out of the swamp. Looks like the die is cast.

You're gonna lose that tax cut. You'll be lucky if they don't make you pass a test to get a gun license.
 
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Tsukasa Buddha said:
The DSA, like Bernie Sanders, is usually more "social democrat" than "democratic socialist", in spite of any self-identification. Looking at these candidates' websites, you see the usual healthcare for all, free education, anti-incarceration, $15 minimum wage, etc. Not exactly seizing the means of production. They want to call themselves socialist, because they are ironically buying into the conservative rhetoric that the current free market ideology==capitalism, and that the Scandinavian countries==socialism.
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I really wish our political language was different and we stopped conflating social spending with socialism. Having a thriving private sector economy, and using some of its riches for social spending on education, health care, and welfare isn't socialism as the means of production(for the most part) is in the private sector.
 
Socialism is when everyone collectively decides to barricade you inside a closet.
 
portlandatheist said:
I really wish our political language was different and we stopped conflating social spending with socialism. Having a thriving private sector economy, and using some of its riches for social spending on education, health care, and welfare isn't socialism as the means of production(for the most part) is in the private sector.
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Arguing strictly for outdated definitions does not serve honest debate. The meaning of the term has evolved from planned economy/state control (which is what we now refer to as Communiism) to represent a "mixed economy" or "regulated free market" approach.

The same people that refuse to us the modern interpretation of the word "socialism" are the same Deniers that insist that today's parties are the same as their 1860s incarnations because the names are the same.
 
Toontown said:
Oh well. I guess conservatoids have nothing to lose by badmouthing the millennials who are gearing up to drain all that blue algae out of the swamp. Looks like the die is cast.

You're gonna lose that tax cut. You'll be lucky if they don't make you pass a test to get a gun license.
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We'll see. Most people start out as liberals, especially in college. After that, reality gets ahold of you. How millennials feel now doesn't mean a lot, especially since most of them still live at home ;)

P.S.
Does this forum have a new spell check? I'm pretty sure "ahold" is a word. This is getting a bit annoying. Do I have to spell online "on-line" now? According to an actual dictionary I do not.
 
ChristianProgressive said:
Arguing strictly for outdated definitions does not serve honest debate. The meaning of the term has evolved from planned economy/state control (which is what we now refer to as Communiism) to represent a "mixed economy" or "regulated free market" approach.

The same people that refuse to us the modern interpretation of the word "socialism" are the same Deniers that insist that today's parties are the same as their 1860s incarnations because the names are the same.
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I understand perfectly well that meanings of words change over time, organization and political groups change course but I'm not engaging in the Genetic Fallacy here.
Many people use the same language, the word socialism, to describe the enterprise Venezuela is undertaking and Scandinavian countries.
Denmark, has an economic freedom index of 76.6, 12th place in the world and ahead of the US which is in 18th place. It is arguably more "capitalist" than the US and simultaneously has much more social spending. Compare that to Venezuela which is in 179th place at 25.2 and yes, today, in 2018, in modern times, we use the same word to describe different things. Bernie Sanders uses the word to describe what he advocates just as Maduro does his so it isn't just people essentially making a straw man argument about the definition of socialism because they are using an antiquated definition of the word which is being disingenuous.
 
ChristianProgressive said:
Arguing strictly for outdated definitions does not serve honest debate. The meaning of the term has evolved from planned economy/state control (which is what we now refer to as Communiism) to represent a "mixed economy" or "regulated free market" approach.

The same people that refuse to us the modern interpretation of the word "socialism" are the same Deniers that insist that today's parties are the same as their 1860s incarnations because the names are the same.
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I 100% disagree. There are actual socialists, and then there are social democrats claiming that Denmark is socialism. They are wrong, and don't know much about political economy or Denmark. Go to Socialism 2018 and tell them that "socialism" actually means supporting a regulated free market.

I don't want to get into a "prescriptivism" debate, but I utterly reject that just because a bunch of ignoramuses are using a term incorrectly the definitions of basic political economy have changed.
 
Toontown said:
Oh well. I guess conservatoids have nothing to lose by badmouthing the millennials who are gearing up to drain all that blue algae out of the swamp. Looks like the die is cast.

You're gonna lose that tax cut. You'll be lucky if they don't make you pass a test to get a gun license.
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That was an error. I meant to say red algae.

mgidm86 said:
We'll see. Most people start out as liberals, especially in college. After that, reality gets ahold of you. How millennials feel now doesn't mean a lot, especially since most of them still live at home ;)
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I'm pretty sure they'll still feel the same way in 2021.

Not sure what kind of reality would have to get ahold of them to make Trump look good to them. I suppose lies could be seen as reality of a sort, in the sense that they are real lies.

mgidm86 said:
P.S.
Does this forum have a new spell check? I'm pretty sure "ahold" is a word. This is getting a bit annoying. Do I have to spell online "on-line" now? According to an actual dictionary I do not.
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I'm pretty sure "ahold" is not formally recognized as a word in the King's English.
 
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Toontown said:
That was an error. I meant to say red algae.
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It's understandable. For many years, the convention was that red stood for the Democrats and blue for the Republicans. Sometime after the fall of the Soviet Union, the Democrats realized that perhaps red was not the best branding for them, and got the compliant media to go along with the change.

I'm pretty sure they'll still feel the same way in 2021.

Not sure what kind of reality would have to get ahold of them to make Trump look good to them. I suppose lies could be seen as reality of a sort, in the sense that they are real lies.
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It's all on the economy. If the unemployment rate is still low in 2020, expect Trump to be reelected in a walk.

I'm pretty sure "ahold" is not formally recognized as a word in the King's English.
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Accepted by Merriam Webster. Granted, it generally means the same thing as "hold," but it's still a legit word.
 
Brainster said:
It's all on the economy. If the unemployment rate is still low in 2020, expect Trump to be reelected in a walk.
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Maybe, unless the Democrats can get the truth about the economy across to the voters - that Trump has nothing to do with it.
 
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