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Cont: JFK Conspiracy Theories VI: Lyndon Johnson's Revenge

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I remind you that YOU were the one who said the tests on goats weren't good enough. You wanted to see the results on humans, you said:
This is core dishonesty. Knowingly misstating an opponent to cover up your own corrupt agenda. I wrote:
”I didn’t request known nerve reflexes from goats, I requested such from humans, since JFK was, a human. Do you have any?”
Explain how you from this can extract this:
”You wanted to see the results on humans
You haven’t an honest bone in your body, do you.

You mean Donald Thomas, the entomologist?
This conspiracy guy? http://spartacus-educational.com/JFKthomasD.htm

Maybe he could be considered an expert on what happens when a bug gets hit by a 6.5 Carcano round, but otherwise, no.
Everything I take from Thomas (or anybody) is double checked in his ample footnotes to the relevant expertise.

No worries.

The opinions of actual experts were cited right here to you here:
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12292424&postcount=3253
Good. Present your argument from these experts and their findings.

and you ignored it entirely, to offer the opinion of the conspiracy addict
In the real world, outside your Mighty Church, a ”conspiracy addict” is called a ”concerned citizen”, the lifeblood of every functional democracy.

who thinks he's qualified to analyze purported echoes in Dealey Plaza
He have done a meticulus reading of the real science in the HSCA acoustic report itself, not the deformed political compromise presented by Robert Blakey et.al. to the Congress and the American people, who paid for it.

If you have any complaints, adress the science.

and now, human reactions to Carcano bullet wounds to the head.
Same here. You do not need to be an expert in a field in order to read what expert in the field have put forward in the scientific litterature and, again, if you have any complaints, adress the science.

Is Donald Thomas the do-everything go-to guy for conspiracy questions now? I always thought that was Dr. Wecht.

Hank
No. Not as McAdams is for you, no. I’ll cite good science where I find it.

How come almost all of the more prominent members of the Mighty Church of the Lone Nut, turn out to be real creeps or worse, assets of the CIA?

- Gerald Posner, serial plagiarist and trying to con an old writer of her royalties from her world famous best seller. Not to mention his fradulent book, Case Closed.

- John McAdams, fired from his position as university professor for harassing teachers and students who often happened to be, young women. Climate change denier. Pro torture. Pro more death penalties. Lobbyist for the cancer-tobbaco-industry. Lobbyist for the climate changing oil-junta. Member of far right institutes promoting far right ’nation building’ in developing countries. What a guy.

- Vincent Bugliosi, takes one million dollar from the CIA to write a Lone Nut-book after being coached by CIA’s David Atlee Philips in a mock trial against a dead Oswald in London. A book mostly written by another fraudster and Lone Nutter, Dale Myers.

- Max Holland, an unashamed known CIA asset.

And on and on. Real creeps. Why is that, Hank?

Any idea?
 
This is core dishonesty. ... You haven’t an honest bone in your body, do you.

Reduced to name calling, I see. When in doubt, pound the table.
Tests on goats were provided, you said that was inadequate. You said the results should apply to humans. To me, that meant you wanted tests on humans.


Everything I take from Thomas (or anybody) is double checked in his ample footnotes to the relevant expertise.

You personally stand behind every claim you've made on this board because you've verified them?

How about the FBI switching the frames? That one? You stand behind that claim? You stand behind the photo of the supposed smoke on the knoll? You stand behind the listing of the 52 knoll witnesses, including Seymour Weitzman?


He have done a meticulus reading of the real science in the HSCA acoustic report itself, not the deformed political compromise presented by Robert Blakey et.al. to the Congress and the American people, who paid for it.

If you have any complaints, adress the science.

Same here. If you would address the rebuttals, and tell us what you think was wrong with the rebuttals of the HSCA study and the rebuttals of the Thomas study, we'd make some real headway. But you simply keep pounding the table for those studies and ignoring all the rebuttal arguments.


Same here. You do not need to be an expert in a field in order to read what expert in the field have put forward in the scientific litterature and, again, if you have any complaints, adress the science.

You don't need to be an expert in the field, but you yourself asked above more than once for judicial like proceedings -- which means Thomas, who isn't a recognized expert in acoustics, wouldn't get within 1000 feet of the witness stand as a person qualified to testify. You cite non-experts and hearsay. I cite legitimate experts and evidence. You pretend your assertions overrule the expert testimony. It doesn't.


No. Not as McAdams is for you, no.

Begging the question. I've already pointed out I researched all this long before I ever heard of John McAdams.


I’ll cite good science where I find it.

Begging the question. Is a entomologist a qualified expert in acoustics, especially when you denigrate the makeup of the National Academy of Sciences Panel? I'm seeing a bit of bias in your criticism of one, and applause of the other.


How come almost all of the more prominent members of the Mighty Church of the Lone Nut, turn out to be real creeps or worse, assets of the CIA?

- Gerald Posner, serial plagiarist and trying to con an old writer of her royalties from her world famous best seller. Not to mention his fradulent book, Case Closed.

- John McAdams, fired from his position as university professor for harassing teachers and students who often happened to be, young women. Climate change denier. Pro torture. Pro more death penalties. Lobbyist for the cancer-tobbaco-industry. Lobbyist for the climate changing oil-junta. Member of far right institutes promoting far right ’nation building’ in developing countries. What a guy.

- Vincent Bugliosi, takes one million dollar from the CIA to write a Lone Nut-book after being coached by CIA’s David Atlee Philips in a mock trial against a dead Oswald in London. A book mostly written by another fraudster and Lone Nutter, Dale Myers.

- Max Holland, an unashamed known CIA asset.

And on and on. Real creeps. Why is that, Hank?

Any idea?

I recognize unproven ad hominem attacks from a desperate poster when I see it.

I'd ask you to cite your evidence but we both know all you have is conspiracy sources.

Hank
 
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I know he's not here right now, but I'm just cleaning up after him:

Begging the question. Abraham Zapruder, who filmed the assassination and who owned the rights to his personal property (the Zapruder film showing the assassination) sold the print rights to LIFE Magazine, but not the film rights. It could NOT be shown as a film.
Since both you and Zapruder has been caught lying x times before, I think I have to ask you to provide a source for this.
Have any?

My source is the book "The Zapruder Film" by David R. Wrone (conspiracy theorist)
On page 34 he says this is the contract executed between LIFE Magazine's representative Richard Stolley and Zapruder.

== QUOTE ==
Nov. 23, 1963

In consideration of the sum of fifty thousand dollars ($50,000.), I grant LIFE Magazine exclusive world wide print media rights to my original 8 mm color film which shows the shooting of President Kennedy in Dallas on Nov. 22, 1963. I retain all motion picture rights, but agree not to release the film for motion picture, television, newsreel, etc., use until Friday, Nov. 29, 1963. You agree to return to me the original print of that film, and I will then supply you with a copy print.

Abraham Zapruder

Agreed to:

Richard B. Stolley

LIFE Magazine

Witnesses

[Lillian Roger, Erwin Schwartz]

== UNQUOTE ==

Aside from that, you claim myself and Zapruder have "been caught lying x times before" but you offer no evidence for those claims. Please provide the evidence of myself and Zapruder lying when you return (you won't, because I don't).


Selling the best evidence to the highest bidder seem to be a fine and proud tradition in the US.

Gee, I would think the rifle used in the assassination, the shells, the two large fragments, and the nearly whole bullet recovered from Parkland Hospital were the best evidence. All of those were in the government's hands. But that's a problem for you too, isn't it? Because you assert the government was behind the murder, so any evidence in the government's hands can be dismissed because of the possibility of tampering. Right?


- The only film that covers the entirety of the assassination of the 35th president.

And that is likewise dismissed because it remained in private hands and wasn't seen as a film on 11/22/63 by the people of the U.S.? Is that your complaint? Were you even born on 11/22/63? Or by 1975, when the film was shown on U.S. network television? If not, what exactly is your complaint? You weren't harmed in any way by the failure of it to be broadcast.


- All the steel on ground zero before a forensic investigation was allowed on the premises. You should feel really proud, Hank. It’s a dandy tradition.

It's called private property rights, and yes, I'm proud this country can't just seize anything it wants without just recompense.


No, they were very modest. 150 000 dollars from LIFE who sold it back after Riveras outing of the content for 1 dollar. After that, the JFK Records Act, and another 16 000 000 dollars! from the taxpayers.

LIFE sold it back because it had become an albatross and they wanted to be rid of the complaints directed at them. Again, they never had the film rights, only the print rights, so they couldn't satisfy the critics who wanted to see it as a film without breaking the contract. So they sold the print rights back solely to wash their hands of it. The government was empowered by the ARRB act to take possession of all JFK records and store them in the archives. The debate then followed over whether the film was a record covered under the act and if they seized it, what would be just recompense. Since the film is one of a kind and there is no other like it, and as you argue, it's the best evidence in the assassination, the price of $16m was agreed upon as compensation for that unique historical artifact. Since you're not a U.S. citizen and aren't harmed in any fashion by the purchase of the film by the government with U.S. taxpayer dollars, what's your underlying complaint and your real reason for complaining here?

If you want to talk about the Geraldo Rivera program, here's a link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=443&v=nxCH1yhGG3Q

Please go to 7:15 in the above and listen as Robert Groden (conspiracy theorist) falsely claims that 80% of the witnesses named the knoll as the source of the shots. Total bunk. And we all know it. Even you know it. You couldn't get to a majority of the witnesses even citing your conspiracy sources.


How’s that for making a buck NOT being a ”conspiracy theorist”, Hank? Where is the real money?

It's in being a shill for the government. Back in the early 1980s - and I pointed this out before - I signed a million dollar contract to defend the lies of the Warren Commission. But I should have read the contract more closely. It promised me a dollar a year for a million years. You just can't trust the CIA. ;) I learned my lesson. Now I post fake news on Facebook for Putin. It pays better. You?


"Three shots were heard and the President fell forward, bleeding from the head. . ." (Warren Report p. 539.)​
The only known source for this is the Dan Rather statement, making him a ’made man’ in US Gangster State.

Your only problem is that Humes' autopsy report which you quote from is from the weekend of the assassination (dated 11/24/63), and Rather's reporting of the film didn't happen until the next day, Monday, 11/25/63. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kiSoxFHyjGY

Humes reporting didn't come from Rather, it clearly came from newspapers whose reporting came from witnesses.

No evidence from you, just false assertions.


Maybe because they were in the newspaper business as a member of the fourth estate? Heard of that? Keeping an eye on the people in power, reporting corruption, political crimes and abuses of the public trust?

Sounds about right.

Hank
 
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How come almost all of the more prominent members of the Mighty Church of the Lone Nut, turn out to be real creeps or worse, assets of the CIA?

- Gerald Posner, serial plagiarist and trying to con an old writer of her royalties from her world famous best seller. Not to mention his fradulent book, Case Closed.

- John McAdams, fired from his position as university professor for harassing teachers and students who often happened to be, young women. Climate change denier. Pro torture. Pro more death penalties. Lobbyist for the cancer-tobbaco-industry. Lobbyist for the climate changing oil-junta. Member of far right institutes promoting far right ’nation building’ in developing countries. What a guy.

- Vincent Bugliosi, takes one million dollar from the CIA to write a Lone Nut-book after being coached by CIA’s David Atlee Philips in a mock trial against a dead Oswald in London. A book mostly written by another fraudster and Lone Nutter, Dale Myers.

- Max Holland, an unashamed known CIA asset.

And on and on. Real creeps. Why is that, Hank?

Any idea?

You, my friend, are a CIA asset. The best kind of CIA asset. The disinformation you spread about the CIA makes them seem more accomplished, and impressive than they actually are in real life. Not only to you link them to assassinations they never committed, you claim anyone who has dared question the JFK conspiracy for the crapola that is it must also work for the CIA, or is paid by the CIA.

You're the best kind of CIA asset, thanks to you and the smoke you blow the CIA's true activities remain undiscovered. Your ignorance makes the CIA's job much easier.

On behalf of the CIA, thank you for your tireless work on the CIA's behalf.:thumbsup:

;););)
 
He have done a meticulous reading of the real science in the HSCA acoustic report itself

1. Please cite for this. Cite where Thomas states he has "done a meticulous reading of the real science in the HSCA acoustic report"

2. More to the point, have you? Have you "done a meticulous reading of the real science in the HSCA acoustic report"?

You see, I don't think you have. I do not believe you have even the foggiest understanding of the actual science involved. If you claim otherwise, then you will go a long way towards proving that you do, by answering these questions.

a. What is the nature of the noises recorded on the dictabelt that the analysts thought they were able to interpret as gunshots under certain preconditions?

b. Exactly why is one of those preconditions, the positioning of the microphones, so critical to determining whether or not the sound could be interpreted as gunshots.

c. Why is it that, if the microphones were not in the correct locations at the correct times, the whole premise of interpreting those sounds as gunshots falls down?

IMO, even if you have read the reports, you also need to be able to understand the science therein, and its implications and what the science means, and I do not believe that you do!


ETA: if others know, please do not give any hints in the forum. I want him to work it out by himself
 
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We've been through this. Respectfully, nobody cares what you think. It's all about "what does the evidence indicate?'

No, there hasn't. This was covered the last time you popped in here, just yesterday. Repeating your claims don't make them more true.

Hank

Well what about this case then? It's suspicious.

https://knowledgenuts.com/2013/10/23/jfk-and-the-dorothy-kilgallen-conspiracy/

In the wake of her passing, members of Kilgallen’s inner circle claimed that she’d told them she was “about to blow the JFK case sky high.” Records indicate she was a person of interest to the FBI, with director J. Edgar Hoover labeling her as “flighty and irresponsible.” What secrets did Dorothy Kilgallen take to the grave? Her husband Richard Kollmar was mum about whatever information his wife might have possessed, telling people that her knowledge had “done enough damage already.” Five years later, Kollmar also took his own life, swallowing many pills. Strangely enough, the medical examiner did not label this incident a suicide either, and public obituaries stated he’d died in his sleep.
 
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Ok, it's apparent that you didn't read the link, nor the sub-links within. Kilgallen is covered in there. I predicted you wouldn't.

For balance, here's an different look at it:
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/deaths.htm

I'd suggest you read it, but we both know you won't.

McAdams has numerous links to others research on individual cases. You might want to click on the links, but as they will dispel your suspicions, I doubt you ever will.

Hank
 
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Ok, it's apparent that you didn't read the link, nor the sub-links within. Kilgallen is covered in there. I predicted you wouldn't.

This would be tantamount to the 'mysterious" deaths surrounding both the Apollo hoax and later in the 2000's NASA's "mysterious" deaths of scientists. Chief among them were Apollo 1's death of the astronauts during a test. More lately a scientist died in his private plane the crashed "mysteriously". Hoaxers will always dig up deaths that "prove" those deaths were carried out because they "knew too much". The gullible will lap this up.
 
This would be tantamount to the 'mysterious" deaths surrounding both the Apollo hoax and later in the 2000's NASA's "mysterious" deaths of scientists.

By now, I think it's more akin to the chilling revalation that not one witness to the assassination of Abraham Lincoln is still alive. Try telling me that's not evidence of a cover-up.

Dave
 
This would be tantamount to the 'mysterious" deaths surrounding both the Apollo hoax and later in the 2000's NASA's "mysterious" deaths of scientists. Chief among them were Apollo 1's death of the astronauts during a test. More lately a scientist died in his private plane the crashed "mysteriously". Hoaxers will always dig up deaths that "prove" those deaths were carried out because they "knew too much". The gullible will lap this up.

I suspect that Henri's picture is in the dictionary in the definition of the word "gullible".

Oh wait, I just remembered that the word "gullible" isn't in any dictionary. :D
 
[IMGW=570]https://i.imgur.com/5LCE98b.jpg[/IMGw]

More like this.

Photo_hsca_ex_139.jpg
 
Okay, why do you think the wound was 4-5 inches above the EOP instead of right next to the EOP?


Given that the wound you call the "cowlick" wound is visible in photographs, why do you not know if it is four inches or five? Why such a large margin of error for a known location?

Why have you yet to identify any other entry wound consistently on xrays or photographs?

And, for that matter, whom is to say "slightly above" can't mean four inches? The autopsy didn't state "right next to", that remains your personal interpretation, shown to be in error many times over.
 
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