Cont: JFK Conspiracy Theories VI: Lyndon Johnson's Revenge

[Axxman300]

Good. Show me.

Quote relevant parts and explain.

Nope. You're an adult making silly claims. Read it yourself.

 

[traxy]

Precisely my point. The short nick forward milliseconds before the violent snap backwards is not conclusive evidence of a shot from behind.

It's not "milliseconds" of difference. It's 1/9th of a second.

- It could be from a shot from behind, which doesn’t exclude a simultanious shot from in front.

The dictabelt didn't pick up simultaneous shots from 2 directions at Z313. So either the dictabelt recording is in error and unreliable, or the sole kill shot came from behind (which makes the dictabelt recording in error and unreliable).

Pick your poison.

- It could be from the movements of JFK and/or the limo.

Wrong.

JFK is sitting upright and not moving at all for over 3 full seconds prior to the headshot. When the headshot hits at frame 313, he's forced violently forward 3 inches in 1/18th of a second. Nobody else in the limo has a comparable reaction at that timeframe.

 

[manifesto]

This underlines your ignorance about US History, and political power in general.

Comming from you, I’ll take that as warm compliment. Thank you.

Dulles would never have participated in the assassination of any US President because as DCI

Former DCI, being fired by ”that little Kennedy, he thought he was a god”.

he would have as many enemies as allies within CIA. Someone would have gone public and he'd know that.

He was still CIA’s informal leader at the time of the assassination. Most of the old boys network were still loyal to him. Where were Allen at the time of the assassination? In his private bunker/appartment/HQ at the ”Farm”, CIA’s training facilities in Virginia. The whole weekend.

Plus, the man was a patriot.

I’m convinced that most of the cowards taking part in the assassination of president Kennedy, did it as ”good patriots”, saving the country from a ”pinky” traitor in the White house.

LBJ was a career politician, but a coward which was embodied in his well known bullying.

He was a corrupt sociopath doing anything to promote his own power and wealth. Anything. Lying to Congress to get a free pass with Vietnam, sacrificing millions of innocent human beings in Indochina including almost 70 000 young Americans in a cruel and pointless war he knew could not be won.

With the Baker scandal closing in and knowing he would be droppen from the 64 election ticket, probably facing long time in prison, he had nothing to lose and everything to gain.

Johnson believed in a conspiracy thinking Cuba was behind it, and feared that once the "truth" came out the American people would seek revenge.

No he did not believe that Cuba was behind the assassination. He knew they were not, but used it as a blanket threat in order to cover up all signs of conspiracy, including the real one, of which he himself was a part.

Johnson's belief in conspiracy is the main reason you and other CTist waste their lives on this subject.

No. You haven’t got a clue do you?

Hoover would never kill JFK. Hoover held power in D.C. because of his use of the FBI to blackmail politicians from low level Congressmen to almost every President. JFK was a blackmailer's dream come true with his womanizing alone, and would have been a golden calf to Hoover.

In case this is true, he could easily have let Hoover go after his second inauguration and Hoover knew this.

Worse, the assassination gave the FBI a black eye because Oswald was one of only 9 defectors to the Soviet Union to return to the US, and the FBI Dallas office dropped the ball on surveillance. At the very least James Hosty should have made a point to be in the TSBD following Oswald around until JFK was out of Texas.

Easy to hide if you have the power over the the investigation. Which he and his neigbour and long time friend the new US president Johnson, certainly had.

And, they succeeded.

After the assassination the FBI destroyed Hosty's life even though he'd only been doing what he had been told to do, which was watch Marina.

Hoovers MO, yes, when an agent ”embarrassed the Bureau”, as Hosty’s little note from Oswald apparently did.

This is yet another reason why there was no conspiracy. Oswald was the FBI's responsibility, and the fact that he got by them every step of the way - because the FBI Dallas office was lazy -

No. He was willfully ’hands of’ beacause he was the designated patsy.

would automatically make the Bureau a suspect in the killing if by some chance it could be proven that they were not lazy. They should have got in his face when he bought the rifle.

He didn’t buy the rifle. FBI fabricated the paper trial in order to connect him to the alleged murder weapon.

A sloppy job, yes, but sufficient to present the illusion of evidence to the Warren Commission so its ”august” members did not have to dirty their hands.

 

[manifesto]

It's not "milliseconds" of difference. It's 1/9th of a second.

Whatever.

The dictabelt didn't pick up simultaneous shots from 2 directions at Z313. So either the dictabelt recording is in error and unreliable, or the sole kill shot came from behind (which makes the dictabelt recording in error and unreliable).

Pick your poison.

I’m not excluding rifles with silencers, no. You do?

Wrong.

JFK is sitting upright and not moving at all for over 3 full seconds prior to the headshot. When the headshot hits at frame 313, he's forced violently forward 3 inches in 1/18th of a second. Nobody else in the limo has a comparable reaction at that timeframe.

Wow. Violently. It is hardly discernable. I have no firm belief in any of the alternatives, I’m just listing them as possible alternatives, nothing more.

If I have to pick one I pick the silencer.

 

[Tomtomkent]

I’m not excluding rifles with silencers, no. You do?

Given that:
There is no evidence of a wound caused by any bullet of a calibre compatible with a silenced rifle in use at the time.
There is no evidence of any wound not caused by caricano ammo.
The limited range and accuracy of silenced weapons meaning they would have to be visible in the filmed footage.
And the lack of any other reason for them to be counted in.

I think you will struggle to convince anybody they are a viable explanation.

Of course, if you read this thread, you would already know that.

 

[Tomtomkent]

He didn’t buy the rifle. FBI fabricated the paper trial in order to connect him to the alleged murder weapon.

As this is a statement of fact, missing none of your qualifiers of "I strongly suspect" or "Personally believe" or whatever, you will of course, be able to prove this, with clear evidence of fabrication, beyond your fallacious quibbles of the FBI printing only the papers they need from a microfiche record?

 

[manifesto]

Given that:
There is no evidence of a wound caused by any bullet of a calibre compatible with a silenced rifle in use at the time.

No reported evidence of such, that is.

There is no evidence of any wound not caused by caricano ammo.

There is no evidence of any wound caused by Carcano ammo.

The limited range and accuracy of silenced weapons meaning they would have to be visible in the filmed footage.

So, lets say, the western part of the TSBD is not an option?

And the lack of any other reason for them to be counted in.

The more shooters the bigger the chance of a successfull assassination.

I think you will struggle to convince anybody they are a viable explanation.

No need to. I state it as a possible explanation to the little nick forward before the violent snap backwards.

Of course, if you read this thread, you would already know that.

Judging from your concerted performance in the part of the thread I have paticipated, I wouldn’t bet on finding anything of value further back.

But, be my guest, quote and explain from said thread if you have anything you would like to share that you find particular convincing.

Who knows, maybe you against all odds have something useful to share.

 

[manifesto]

As this is a statement of fact, missing none of your qualifiers of "I strongly suspect" or "Personally believe" or whatever, you will of course, be able to prove this, with clear evidence of fabrication, beyond your fallacious quibbles of the FBI printing only the papers they need from a microfiche record?

Yes I will. In due time.

 

[traxy]

I’m not excluding rifles with silencers, no. You do?

Do you have evidence of rifles with silencers being used? No.

Or evidence of a second headshot? No.

All the evidence (film, photo, x-ray, ballistic) indicates a single shot to the head from behind at that timeframe. Feel free to invent as many "silenced" shots as you want, without evidence we'll ignore them.

Deal?

 

[manifesto]

Do you have evidence of rifles with silencers being used? No.

That is why I stated it as a possibility, not a fact.

Or evidence of a second headshot? No.

Are you disputing any headshot?

All the evidence (film, photo, x-ray, ballistic) indicates a single shot to the head from behind at that timeframe.

The x-rays and photos allegedly taken at the autopsy supports a single shot from behind, yes. Problem is, they do not support the autopsy itself. Or the testimony from the doctors and nurses from three Hospitals all observing JFK’s headwounds close up. Or the Sercret Service Agents doing the same. Or the FBI agents doing the same. Or the acoustic evidence. Or the 50+ witnesses in Dealey Plaza reporting shot/s from the knoll in front of JFK. Or the Zapruder-film showing JFK’s head snapping violently back and to the left (knoll, front to the right). Or ...

Against all this you have a couple of photos and x-rays very easy to fake.

You do the math.

Feel free to invent as many "silenced" shots as you want, without evidence we'll ignore them.

No inventions needed, no. Enough to not exclude such as a possibility.

Deal?

Whatever, dude.

 

[smartcooky]

I believe it is you who have to show that the 3000 rpm is incompatible with known speeds of the motorcade at Main and Houston.

My first thought was that it seemed a bit high for a Harley but then I had a look at this one supposedly idling standing still at 3000 rpm.

https://youtu.be/AIvSoi8eW0M

It could very well be a sweet spot for McLain’s Harley, using the gears and brakes when needing to adjust the speed as the motorcade traveled through Dallas.

Thank you for the link, I’ll read the paper in a short while.

I ride a motorcycle, and I can tell you that at 3000 rpm it would need to be running in low gear to keep it at rolling at around the speed of the motorcade... 8 to 10 mph. To anyone in close proximity it would sound very strange, like it was revving far too high. Near as I can figure out, the motorcycles in the motorcade were mostly 1963/64 Harley Davidson DuoGlides. They have a four speed gearbox and an engine red line of 4000 rpm. In fourth gear at 3000 rpm they are doing about 75 mph, in third gear about 62 mph. and in 2nd gear about 38 mph. I could not find the gearbox ratio of first gear but at 3000 in that gear, it would be difficult to keep the speed constant, as any slight change in throttle setting would cause the motorcycle accelerate and decelerate violently due to the high gear ratio.

ETA: Just found it. The 1st gear ratio of a 1963/64 Harley Davidson motorcyle is 2.60:1. That would have the motorcycle doing 28mph at 3000 rpm in 1st gear

 

[Elagabalus]

...I’m convinced that most of the cowards taking part in the assassination of president Kennedy, did it as ”good patriots”, saving the country from a ”pinky” traitor in the White house...

A president too good to fail?

 

[Elagabalus]

...He didn’t buy the rifle. FBI fabricated the paper trial in order to connect him to the alleged murder weapon...

And the pictures of him with the Carcano and the revolver? All fabricated?

 

[traxy]

Against all this you have a couple of photos and x-rays very easy to fake.

- The photographic record shows a shot from behind pushing the head forward 3 inches on impact with an exit wound above the right ear extending to the midline on top of the head. This is evidence of a shot from behind.

- That shot created a massive ejection of material almost exclusively in front of the head with nothing at all visible behind it. This ejection in front of the head is present in all 3 films of the assassination. This is evidence of a shot from behind.

- Photographs of JFKs autopsy were examined by a panel of experts on behalf of the House Select Committee. They found that the images were unaltered and showed JFK. Those photographs show bone bevelling at the entry wound in the rear, the same exit wound on the right side of the head above the right ear, and no damage in the rear aside from a small entry wound. Stereo pairing of the autopsy photos would make them impossible to alter. This is evidence of a shot from behind.

- X-rays were authenticated by a panel of radiologists on behalf of the House Select Committee using dental records and micro irregularities in JFKs skull. They determined that the subject in the x-rays is JFK and that the x-rays were unaltered. Those x-rays show an entry wound at the rear of the head and a massive blowout on the right side of the head. This is evidence of a shot from behind.

- Parkland doctors were shown the autopsy photographs in 1988 as a part of an episode of Nova. They agreed that the photographs accurately represented the damage they encountered in the trauma room the day of the shooting. Subsequent interviews with Parkland staff indicated that the headwound was not examined in detail during the 20 minutes they spent with the body, and that the head was in such a state of disrepair when they initially observed it that they would have been unable to determine entry and exit with any degree of accuracy.

Films, photos, x-rays, all in complete agreement.

 

[Tomtomkent]

CTs always complain how easy photos and film is to fake... and never identify any photo-artefact to prove tampering. No overlain exposure, broken emulsion grain, signs of splicing or painting...

Odd that.

 

[Tomtomkent]

Yes I will. In due time.

And yet you made the accusation without presenting it?
I see the FBI can be assumed guilty without presenting proof too then... This standard you argued for only does apply to others and not yourself. Interesting.

 

[RoboTimbo]

My first thought...

TL/DR

, you haven't answered about the multiple debunkings of the HSCA findings so I'll assume you realize you have no rebuttal. Everyone else already realizes it.

You're getting your head handed to you repeatedly and thoroughly. Just like the HSCA acoustical crap was debunked.

 

[RoboTimbo]

He didn’t buy the rifle. FBI fabricated the paper trial in order to connect him to the alleged murder weapon.

, now you just need evidence that Oswald didn't buy the rifle he used to assassinate JFK.

A sloppy job, yes, but sufficient to present the illusion of evidence to the Warren Commission so its ”august” members did not have to dirty their hands.

So sloppy that you'll () be able to lay out all of the compelling evidence for it and turn it over to the FBI.

 

[jeffas69]

I ride a motorcycle, and I can tell you that at 3000 rpm it would need to be running in low gear to keep it at rolling at around the speed of the motorcade... 8 to 10 mph. To anyone in close proximity it would sound very strange, like it was revving far too high. Near as I can figure out, the motorcycles in the motorcade were mostly 1963/64 Harley Davidson DuoGlides. They have a four speed gearbox and an engine red line of 4000 rpm. In fourth gear at 3000 rpm they are doing about 75 mph, in third gear about 62 mph. and in 2nd gear about 38 mph. I could not find the gearbox ratio of first gear but at 3000 in that gear, it would be difficult to keep the speed constant, as any slight change in throttle setting would cause the motorcycle accelerate and decelerate violently due to the high gear ratio.

ETA: Just found it. The 1st gear ratio of a 1963/64 Harley Davidson motorcyle is 2.60:1. That would have the motorcycle doing 28mph at 3000 rpm in 1st gear

Thank you very much for that post. I think that about wraps up the speculation on Mclain being the motorcycle with the open mic. At least it should. Of course I doubt that everyone will think so.

 

[traxy]

He didn’t buy the rifle. FBI fabricated the paper trial in order to connect him to the alleged murder weapon.

Absolute nonsense.

There is no evidence at all that the paper trail was fabricated.

Oswald was photographed with the weapon FFS. He signed the back of it. The print and negative were found to be genuine, unaltered and matched to the Oswalds Imperial Reflex camera to the exclusion of all other cameras. Oswald signed the back of George deMohrenschild's copy, a signature matched to Oswald by handwriting experts.

Any claim you make about the validity of the paper trail has to be viewed through that lens. We know FOR A FACT that he possessed the rifle in March of 1963.

Knowing that fact, everything else lines up.

- The order form and money order with his alias and handwriting found to be at best a match for Oswald or at worst inconclusive due to it being a photocopy.

- The prints on the rifle found in the depository. Quibble all you want about the palm print, the fingerprints on the trigger guard were Oswalds. 24 points of match.

- The paper bag in the depository with Oswalds prints that was large enough to carry the disassembled Carcano.

- Fibers in the bottom of the paper bag matching fibers from the blanket in the Paines garage where Oswald was thought to store his rifle.

- Fibers in the butt of the rifle shown to be the same as fibers in the shirt Oswald wore to work the day of the shooting.