Cont: The Trials of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito: Part 27

[Vixen]

What I notice is that the discussion has been diverted to focus on the linguistics of "slut" and "slag".

The relevant topic is, in my opinion, slut-shaming (has anyone ever used the phrase "slag-shaming"?) and misogyny as used against Amanda Knox by the guilters and originally by the Italian authorities and tabloid media.

Whether or not a particular guilter has used the word "slut" to criticize Knox is besides the point; the point is the substantive content of the malicious and misogynistic criticism. It is a guilter trick to divert a discussion from substantive issues to formalism and linguistic arguments.

The slut-shaming against Knox by the guilters is obvious and has its roots in the attacks against Knox - character assassination - by the Italian authorities. I am reminded of the statement in Douglas Preston and Mario Spezi's book Monster of Florence, that when the Italian authorities launch a criminal case against someone, their aim is not only to pursue criminal charges but also to destroy the life and reputation of the accused.

You have to separate criminal profiling from so-called 'slut-shaming'. Given the Kercher crime involved serious sexual assault and stripping of the body, leaving it posed in a disgusting position for whoever found it, then of course detectives will be looking for sexual perverts. In this case, they suspected a woman was involved, so of course Knox bragging about her sexual exploits and referring to herself as 'Foxy Knoxy' is a legitimate area of investigation into the crime.

The tabloids have always used salacious headlines to derive sales. To claim that Knox was targetted 'just because she was a woman who liked sex with lots of men' is not quite the true picture she is now trying to depict as the reason for her being arrested, charged and convicted of the crime.

She was acquitted, with the Court confirming her presence at the murder scene and covering up for Rudy who did commit sexual assault, but who almost certainly fled immediately after the murder, leaving the remaining assailants to stage the burglary and move the body into position.

It is not slut-shaming for all this to come up in court as evidence against Knox and Raff.

It is intellectually dishonest to claim 'Knox was arrested because she was seen as a slut'.

 

[Bill Williams]

You have to separate criminal profiling from so-called 'slut-shaming'. Given the Kercher crime involved serious sexual assault and stripping of the body, leaving it posed in a disgusting position for whoever found it, then of course detectives will be looking for sexual perverts. In this case, they suspected a woman was involved, so of course Knox bragging about her sexual exploits and referring to herself as 'Foxy Knoxy' is a legitimate area of investigation into the crime.

The tabloids have always used salacious headlines to derive sales. To claim that Knox was targetted 'just because she was a woman who liked sex with lots of men' is not quite the true picture she is now trying to depict as the reason for her being arrested, charged and convicted of the crime.

She was acquitted, with the Court confirming her presence at the murder scene and covering up for Rudy who did commit sexual assault, but who almost certainly fled immediately after the murder, leaving the remaining assailants to stage the burglary and move the body into position.

It is not slut-shaming for all this to come up in court as evidence against Knox and Raff.

It is intellectually dishonest to claim 'Knox was arrested because she was seen as a slut'.

This post is a fascinating example of living in another world, where sheer repetition of long since debunked factoids are strung together as if anyone else believed them.

Last sentence - strawman. No one claims that, yet why not just toss it in! But you knew that. The topic of the Vice program, The Scarlett Letter Reports, is the many women who've been slutshamed in the media, or who have had a sexialized version of themselves used as clickbait for tabloids.

The rest of the post is just a full speed ahead ignoring of items long since debunked, strung together so that volume can make up for substance.

Please continue. It proves the point of the thesis of The Scarlett Lettrr Reports. I'd have doubted the thesis if it had not been for your posts!

 

[Numbers]

It's interesting that the guilters believe that the police suspected a woman had responsibility for murdering/raping Kercher, since it was a man's DNA that was found in her vagina, as well as on her clothes and her purse (handbag).

The police "suspected" Knox because they could "close the case" quickly by setting her up for the crime, along with Sollecito and Lumumba. They intended to do this by coercing Knox and Sollecito into false confessions and false statements on November 5/6, 2007.

 

[Bill Williams]

But at least now Vixen concedes (for the second time) that the pair had been acquitted!

 

[bagels]

It is intellectually dishonest to claim 'Knox was arrested because she was seen as a slut'.

That's true. She was arrested after 6 days despite none of the evidence collected at that point pointing towards her, because the break-in was arbitrarily assumed staged, which meant Knox, being the only keyed flatmate without a bulletproof alibi, must've been guilty, so they rushed to interrogate a statement out of her by any means necessary before her family arrived in town to whisk her away.

Then the rapekit results and bloody palm print at the scene matched a knife carrying two-story climbing rock window bashing burglar and they had to distract the public with lurid sex stories and slut shaming, and it worked on the gullible tabloid reading crowd without any critical thinking skills (Hint: you).

 

[LondonJohn]

It is true that many so-called Americanisms, actually go back to the days when America was first colonised by the English, so in effect, are more correct than some modern English terms. For example, the use of 'z' instead of 's' in words such as 'realize' or idealize' is more correct (being derived from Greek) than the UK versions, which have been 'french-ified', if you like.

So, there was an overlapping meaning of being of easy virtue, in 'slut', extrapolating from not being of proper attire or tidiness, which some lascivious men found sexually attractive. However, it did not exclusively mean, 'promiscuous'.

Oh dear.

You are wrong. And you're digging deeper and deeper. Now where have we seen that before......?

 

[Bill Williams]

You have to separate criminal profiling from so-called 'slut-shaming'. Given the Kercher crime involved serious sexual assault and stripping of the body, leaving it posed in a disgusting position for whoever found it, then of course detectives will be looking for sexual perverts. In this case, they suspected a woman was involved, so of course Knox bragging about her sexual exploits and referring to herself as 'Foxy Knoxy' is a legitimate area of investigation into the crime.

None of this is true, in fact the final court criticized the initial investigation as being so botched that no court anywhere could have reached a verdict based on it.

She was acquitted, with the Court confirming her presence at the murder scene and covering up for Rudy who did commit sexual assault, but who almost certainly fled immediately after the murder, leaving the remaining assailants to stage the burglary and move the body into position.

You keep repeating this with no indication you've even read the report itself, or even acknowledged the posting here, repetitively, what it had actually said on these subjects.

The report confirmed nothing of the sort. It stated that even if Knox and Sollecito had been at the scene, all that was proven was that they must have been there at a later time and in another part of the cottage - which no one denies. The text which says this has been posted here numerous times, and you ignore it. The other stuff is your invention.

Yet you keep posting it, and probably will repost again never acknowledging (or posting the full text of) the relevant sections of the report.

 

[Numbers]

That's true. She was arrested after 6 days despite none of the evidence collected at that point pointing towards her, because the break-in was arbitrarily assumed staged, which meant Knox, being the only keyed flatmate without a bulletproof alibi, must've been guilty, so they rushed to interrogate a statement out of her by any means necessary before her family arrived in town to whisk her away.

Then the rapekit results and bloody palm print at the scene matched a knife carrying two-story climbing rock window bashing burglar and they had to distract the public with lurid sex stories and slut shaming, and it worked on the gullible tabloid reading crowd without any critical thinking skills (Hint: you).

This seems to be the key to the puzzle of why Knox was a "suspect", at least for the police, assuming them more rational than Mignini.

One point to emphasize is that by assuming, arbitrarily, that the break-in was staged, the case becomes a quick and easy one to solve. Assuming a staged break-in implied someone with a key was the culprit, and the "best" - that is, most vulnerable - candidate was then Knox. The only need once Knox was viewed as the "suspect" was for the police to coerce (and confuse) Sollecito into at least temporarily abandoning his claim that she was with him at his apartment at the relevant time (the night of Nov. 1). Since neither Knox nor Sollecito seemed a good psychological or physical fit to personally carry out the murder, the police decided to bring Lumumba, a dark-skinned African man, into the frame.

 

[bagels]

This seems to be the key to the puzzle of why Knox was a "suspect", at least for the police, assuming them more rational than Mignini.

One point to emphasize is that by assuming, arbitrarily, that the break-in was staged, the case becomes a quick and easy one to solve. Assuming a staged break-in implied someone with a key was the culprit, and the "best" - that is, most vulnerable - candidate was then Knox. The only need once Knox was viewed as the "suspect" was for the police to coerce (and confuse) Sollecito into at least temporarily abandoning his claim that she was with him at his apartment at the relevant time (the night of Nov. 1). Since neither Knox nor Sollecito seemed a good psychological or physical fit to personally carry out the murder, the police decided to bring Lumumba, a dark-skinned African man, into the frame.

Imagine if Amanda was actually guilty but the police missed it and just arrested Rudy Guede. And you had the unfortunate job in this alternative timeline of trying to convince now former guilters that Knox is guilty. Listen Vixen, I know the CCTV video shows Rudy approaching the cottage alone, and the bloody prints all match him, and his DNA was found in the rapekit, and his history of anti-social trespassing knife carrying behavior was alarming, but what if the other flatmate was somehow the mastermind of the murder? Wait, stop ignoring me, I know it sounds far-fetched but it could be true

 

[acbytesla]

No offense. But Vixen has done it again. Nobody, not even Vixen believes she was using the term 'slut' to describe Amanda as a a slovenly woman. If you have read her posts these last few years, you know it.

No, Vixen has been engaging in slut shaming. She has been talking about Amanda's sexuality and equating that to being 'dirty'. This is why she has brought up the guy on the train so many times.

 

[Stacyhs]

But I have shown that "slut" has the meaning under discussion going back to 1450! By the way the definition of "slut" as meaning " a woman of dirty, slovenly, or untidy habits or appearance, a foul slattern" may be a perfectly good and respectable definition, but so is the second, now more common definition. Do you think Dickens was influenced by the Americans when he wrote in Nicholas Nickleby : "Never let anybody who is a friend of mine speak to her; a slut, a hussy."?

As Dickins makes clear, you can be both. You can be a slut (slovenly in appearance and housekeeping) and a hussy (loose in morals).

LOL...he's obviously using two words for the same thing as reinforcement. But you know that as well as we do.

Who's "Dickins"?

Charles Dickens has clearly used the two words as reinforcing synonyms in that quote. It clearly shows that even in the middle of the 19th Century, the word "slut" referred to loose sexual morals. As it does today. In the UK.

Good writers do not do that. English language doesn't like repetition.

Charles Dickens being a great writer obviously had a different meaning in mind for 'slut' than 'hussy'.

ROTFLMAO! Good writers don't do that? Then Charles Dickens is not a good writer under your definition:

The Oxford English dictionary serves up a variety of cringe-inducing examples, from the 1621 work "The Anatomy of Melancholy," which refers to "a peevish drunken flurt, a waspish cholerick slut," to a character in Charles Dickens' "The Life and Adventures of Nicholas Nickleby" calling another a "slut, a hussy, an impudent artful hussy!"

https://www.livescience.com/18864-slut-limbaugh-controversy.html

LOL. A good writer will depict colloquial speech accurately, thus Charles Dickens having one of his characters speak in the vernacular, does not mean he himself will do so, except as a literary device.

Nice try at moving the goalpost. No one ever claimed that Dickens himself would speak in the vernacular. You just pulled that one out of thin air. As seen in the quotes above, Dickens was using repetition as reinforcement for the word "slut" meaning a "hussy". Try again.

 

[Stacyhs]

As someone brought up In England, all my life 'slut' has had the connotation of being a woman of loose sexual morals i.e. being easy. I have known there is a historical use of being slovenly, a poor housekeeper, but I have never heard it being used in this sense. Slutty refers to being over made-up usually in a short skirt (viz Friday night in Newcastle); it can also refer to getting drunk and making out, you don't have to follow through to be slutty. Interestingly I would associate sluttish with being untidy, not as having a sexual connotation.

'Slutty' is used as an adjective in the ways you described, but being called a slut is always referring to having loose sexual morals. Always. Yes, it can be used by friends in a joking manner just as "b" can be, but when it is used seriously it is always an extreme insult. Another example would be the N word... used by black friends to each other is acceptable. Being called an N by a white stranger is not.

 

[Stacyhs]

I was just reading the comments section in an article on Amanda's recent TV appearance. The venom that was spewed by some people was beyond sickening. People who were obviously ignorant of even the basic facts of the case were delighted to sit behind the anonymity of their computers and write the most reprehensible, nasty, vitriolic insults imaginable and took great delight in it. Much of it was of a sexual nature. It was completely shameful. Reading their comments exposed who the real monsters are for they said far more about them than Amanda. Ironically, in their effort to tear down Amanda, they simply reinforced what she is saying in her new show.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/05/0...y-nickname-still-haunts-her-real-is-gone.html

 

[bagels]

I was just reading the comments section in an article on Amanda's recent TV appearance. The venom that was spewed by some people was beyond sickening. People who were obviously ignorant of even the basic facts of the case were delighted to sit behind the anonymity of their computers and write the most reprehensible, nasty, vitriolic insults imaginable and took great delight in it. Much of it was of a sexual nature. It was completely shameful. Reading their comments exposed who the real monsters are for they said far more about them than Amanda. Ironically, in their effort to tear down Amanda, they simply reinforced what she is saying in her new show.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/05/0...y-nickname-still-haunts-her-real-is-gone.html

Hmm 422 comments.

Ctrl+f "Guede" 0 Results found.

Ctrl+f "Foxy" 43 Results found.

Yep, checks out as a Meredith Kercher murder case thread.

 

[bagels]

Rudy's face when Meredith Kercher's murder is discussed and he's not mentioned

 

[Numbers]

Getting back to the issue of "certificate of innocence", here's a report on the legislature of the state of Kansas passing a bill (which generally would become law with the governor's signature) instituting compensation for wrongful conviction and a certificate to expunge a criminal record.

"Today, the Kansas Legislature passed one of the strongest laws in the country to compensate people who have been exonerated of wrongful convictions. The bill will now go to the governor for approval. Once he signs it, Kansas will be the 33rd state to enact a wrongful conviction compensation law.

House Bill 2579 provides exonerees with $65,000 per year of wrongful imprisonment and $25,000 for each year wrongfully served on parole, probation or the sex offender registry. Non-monetary benefits are also provided, including housing and tuition assistance, counseling, participation in the state’s health care program and financial literacy training. Additionally, the bill provides exonerees with a certificate of innocence and ensures expungement of the wrongful conviction, allowing them to clear their names and move forward in rebuilding their lives."

https://www.innocenceproject.org/kansas-legislature-passes-wrongful-conviction-compensation-law/

 

[Stacyhs]

Getting back to the issue of "certificate of innocence", here's a report on the legislature of the state of Kansas passing a bill (which generally would become law with the governor's signature) instituting compensation for wrongful conviction and a certificate to expunge a criminal record.

"Today, the Kansas Legislature passed one of the strongest laws in the country to compensate people who have been exonerated of wrongful convictions. The bill will now go to the governor for approval. Once he signs it, Kansas will be the 33rd state to enact a wrongful conviction compensation law.

House Bill 2579 provides exonerees with $65,000 per year of wrongful imprisonment and $25,000 for each year wrongfully served on parole, probation or the sex offender registry. Non-monetary benefits are also provided, including housing and tuition assistance, counseling, participation in the state’s health care program and financial literacy training. Additionally, the bill provides exonerees with a certificate of innocence and ensures expungement of the wrongful conviction, allowing them to clear their names and move forward in rebuilding their lives."

https://www.innocenceproject.org/kansas-legislature-passes-wrongful-conviction-compensation-law/

I applaud this move by Kansas.

 

[Stacyhs]

Rudy's face when Meredith Kercher's murder is discussed and he's not mentioned

[qimg]http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/11/14/14/3A5D7C4500000578-3934704-image-a-66_1479134769862.jpg[/qimg]

I'm always amazed at posters who denigrate and condemn Knox and then ask "if she didn't do it, who did"? Such ignorance.

 

[Bill Williams]

I'm always amazed at posters who denigrate and condemn Knox and then ask "if she didn't do it, who did"? Such ignorance.

What's equally baffling are those who are agnostic about guilt but say, "she knows something she's not telling us." For Pete's sake, this case has had its minutiae wrung through the wringer.

It takes all kinds.

 

[Stacyhs]

What's equally baffling are those who are agnostic about guilt but say, "she knows something she's not telling us." For Pete's sake, this case has had its minutiae wrung through the wringer.

It takes all kinds.

I hear this from people who have a limited understanding of the case.