Cont: The Trials of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito: Part 27

[Stacyhs]

The Independent uses it in the correct sense of referring to appearance, 'My bf dumped me because of my dress'. So not referring to her sex life at all, but her slovenly clothing (as in the bf's eyes).

Nope. Also from the same article:

Rather than realise the error of his ways, he then continued to insult Witham by saying: “you look like a slut b.. no offense.”

The second appears to be gay slang rather than any reference to female promiscuity.

The gay man said he was told "I bet you wish you'd worn a rubber now, slut."

So it means something different when it's directed at a man rather than a woman, heh? Desperate much?

The third is quoting an American, so of course she has changed the meaning of this perfectly good and respectable English word.

No, she is not quoting an American. Try again.

Perhaps you should write to the British dictionaries and let them know that 'slut' is not a British term for a woman of loose morals. I'm sure they'd change their definition of it for you.

 

[Vixen]

But I have shown that "slut" has the meaning under discussion going back to 1450! By the way the definition of "slut" as meaning " a woman of dirty, slovenly, or untidy habits or appearance, a foul slattern" may be a perfectly good and respectable definition, but so is the second, now more common definition. Do you think Dickens was influenced by the Americans when he wrote in Nicholas Nickleby : "Never let anybody who is a friend of mine speak to her; a slut, a hussy."?

As Dickins makes clear, you can be both. You can be a slut (slovenly in appearance and housekeeping) and a hussy (loose in morals).

 

[Stacyhs]

The only link you provided of someone using the word, 'slut' as someone who sleeps around was of an American.

If someone called me a 'slut' I would be amused.

Call me a 'slag' and that would be fighting talk.

Um...no. She is British and so is the TV show Fleabag which takes place in London...not New London, CT. Try reading the article a bit more carefully.

Fleabag doesn’t find it in her random, recklessly careless sexual encounters – and neither, in her 20s, did Waller-Bridge. “You’re always being told you’re at your peak, you’re the most attractive you’ll ever be, so get out there and use it. You have a finite amount of time that everyone will want to **** you. But it’s such a weird conflicted message: I must be more promiscuous, I must make the most of this dying, shrivelling shell that I’ve been gifted for this short amount of time, but, at the same time, it’s ‘don’t be a slut’, you know? I felt really strongly while writing Fleabag that there was no such thing as a slut, and I was just going to erase that from the equation.”

If someone called me a 'slut' I would be amused.

If someone did, I'd be more than amused. I'd be on the floor rolling in convulsions of laughter.

 

[LondonJohn]

Perhaps you should write to the British dictionaries and let them know that 'slut' is not a British term for a woman of loose morals. I'm sure they'd change their definition of it for you.

That's perhaps the oddest thing here. Even though every British-English dictionary - all of which take extraordinary care that their definitions a) accurately reflect the way in which each word is defined and used in British English, and b) accurately chart current usage and meanings - clearly defines "slut" as a person of loose sexual morals...... Vixen STILL tries to claim differently.

Kind of a micro-example of everything that's so very wrong/illogical/non-critical-thinking/intellectually-deficient with pretty much every single pro-guilt "argument" about this case.

 

[Vixen]

I think "slag" sounds a bit worse, which is why my dictionary calls it a derogatory word (unlike the perfectly respectable word "slut"). But the point was originally that "Slut" was of American origin and I have proved this is not the case.

Early American might well be based on early English, and they may have adopted 'slut' to mean promiscuous.

I have always understood it to mean slovenly, and thus could be applied to perfectly respectable married women who were a bit untidy with poor hygiene.

I am aware that mass media appears to have changed the meaning to 'sleeps around'.

There are so many examples of illiteracy and dumbing down, it is no surprise.

 

[Stacyhs]

As Dickins makes clear, you can be both. You can be a slut (slovenly in appearance and housekeeping) and a hussy (loose in morals).

LOL...he's obviously using two words for the same thing as reinforcement. But you know that as well as we do.

 

[LondonJohn]

As Dickins makes clear, you can be both. You can be a slut (slovenly in appearance and housekeeping) and a hussy (loose in morals).

Who's "Dickins"?

Charles Dickens has clearly used the two words as reinforcing synonyms in that quote. It clearly shows that even in the middle of the 19th Century, the word "slut" referred to loose sexual morals. As it does today. In the UK.

 

[Stacyhs]

The Independent uses it in the correct sense of referring to appearance, 'My bf dumped me because of my dress'. So not referring to her sex life at all, but her slovenly clothing (as in the bf's eyes).

The second appears to be gay slang rather than any reference to female promiscuity.

The third is quoting an American, so of course she has changed the meaning of this perfectly good and respectable English word.

As research for her new American TV drama, Killing Eve, Waller-Bridge

I see you edited the post to include the last quote. Try reading the article again. She was talking about the SET IN LONDON "Fleabag", not the new American set "Killing Eve". Try again.

 

[LondonJohn]

Early American might well be based on early English, and they may have adopted 'slut' to mean promiscuous.

I have always understood it to mean slovenly, and thus could be applied to perfectly respectable married women who were a bit untidy with poor hygiene.

I am aware that mass media appears to have changed the meaning to 'sleeps around'.

There are so many examples of illiteracy and dumbing down, it is no surprise.

Erm. Is this your version of admitting you were wrong? If so, WOW.

And regardless of what you think the word means and doesn't mean, its widely-understood meaning in British English is (and has been for many, many, many years) directly linked to loose sexual morals and an appetite for serial casual sexual encounters. Full stop.

 

[Vixen]

Vixen, I GUARANTEE that if you went to (say) any provincial shopping centre anywhere in the UK this Saturday and asked 1,000 people for what they thought the term "slut" meant, well over 3/4 (and that's deliberately a highly conservative estimate) of them, of all ages and demographic/socio-economic strata, would tell you it directly implies loose sexual morals - someone who has lots of meaningless casual sexual encounters. I guarantee it.

You're wrong. Please stop.

Yeah. And no doubt 3/4 will pronounce 'either' and 'privacy' the American way and use the word 'to' as punctuation, as in, 'So, yeah,[urgh] you see, David, it is important ter.....[pause]...' and begin every sentence with 'So'.

These will be the 3/4 who make up the mediocrity.

 

[LondonJohn]

Yeah. And no doubt 3/4 will pronounce 'either' and 'privacy' the American way and use the word 'to' as punctuation, as in, 'So, yeah,[urgh] you see, David, it is important ter.....[pause]...' and begin every sentence with 'So'.

These will be the 3/4 who make up the mediocrity.

My original quote to which this was the response (my highlighting for emphasis):

Vixen, I GUARANTEE that if you went to (say) any provincial shopping centre anywhere in the UK this Saturday and asked 1,000 people for what they thought the term "slut" meant, well over 3/4 (and that's deliberately a highly conservative estimate) of them, of all ages and demographic/socio-economic strata, would tell you it directly implies loose sexual morals - someone who has lots of meaningless casual sexual encounters. I guarantee it.

 

[Vixen]

LOL...he's obviously using two words for the same thing as reinforcement. But you know that as well as we do.

Good writers do not do that. English language doesn't like repetition.

Charles Dickens being a great writer obviously had a different meaning in mind for 'slut' than 'hussy'.

 

[Vixen]

Erm. Is this your version of admitting you were wrong? If so, WOW.

And regardless of what you think the word means and doesn't mean, its widely-understood meaning in British English is (and has been for many, many, many years) directly linked to loose sexual morals and an appetite for serial casual sexual encounters. Full stop.

In your mind. No wonder you thinking everybody's 'slut-shaming' when they meant nothing of the sort.

 

[Vixen]

My original quote to which this was the response (my highlighting for emphasis):

Vixen, I GUARANTEE that if you went to (say) any provincial shopping centre anywhere in the UK this Saturday and asked 1,000 people for what they thought the term "slut" meant, well over 3/4 (and that's deliberately a highly conservative estimate) of them, of all ages and demographic/socio-economic strata, would tell you it directly implies loose sexual morals - someone who has lots of meaningless casual sexual encounters. I guarantee it.

No. The educated represent about 20%. Ask an educated person who went to a decent school and read English literature, and I guarantee most can provide you with the correct meaning of 'slut'. Likewise, 'gay' or 'queer'.

 

[Stacyhs]

Early American might well be based on early English, and they may have adopted 'slut' to mean promiscuous.

I have always understood it to mean slovenly, and thus could be applied to perfectly respectable married women who were a bit untidy with poor hygiene.

I am aware that mass media appears to have changed the meaning to 'sleeps around'.

There are so many examples of illiteracy and dumbing down, it is no surprise.

Someone cue the music. Vixen is trying to dance all around the fact she's wrong...again.

 

[Stacyhs]

Yeah. And no doubt 3/4 will pronounce 'either' and 'privacy' the American way and use the word 'to' as punctuation, as in, 'So, yeah,[urgh] you see, David, it is important ter.....[pause]...' and begin every sentence with 'So'.

These will be the 3/4 who make up the mediocrity.

Once again, when you start a sentence with "no doubt", "certainly", etc. what follows is simply made up nonsense for which you can provide no evidence.

 

[toto]

As Dickins makes clear, you can be both. You can be a slut (slovenly in appearance and housekeeping) and a hussy (loose in morals).

Well, first of all I would like to thank you for giving me a reason to get out my massive tomes, which I hardly ever do, because it can be quite fascinating reading the quotations. The editors clearly divide their definitions and provide examples in which those words with the specific definitions are used. No one is disputing that your use of the word is correct, just somewhat arcane. I wonder if there isn't some overlap in the meanings as the quotations I read with the "slovenly" meaning (going back to 1402, bit earlier than 1450) are clearly very derogatory. One from 1621 under the "slovenly" definition seems to me to have echoes of the "hussy" definition: "Women are all day a dressing, to pleasure other men abroad, and go like sluts at home". I know there is here a distinction between dressing to pleasure men and being a slut, in this quotation, but it kind of implies the kind of woman she is, and it isn't just being untidy. But there are quite a few quotations under the "hussy" definition: Here is Fielding in "Joseph Andrews" 1742: " I never knew any of these forward sluts come to good". Your point that slut can be used jokingly is also justified by the OED, but we are getting away from the point: "Slut" is an English word!

 

[toto]

No. The educated represent about 20%. Ask an educated person who went to a decent school and read English literature, and I guarantee most can provide you with the correct meaning of 'slut'. Likewise, 'gay' or 'queer'.

"a" correct meaning

 

[Vixen]

Well, first of all i would like to thank you for giving me a reason to get out my massive tomes, which I hardly ever do, because it can be quite fascinating reading the quotations. The editors clearly divide their definitions and provide examples in which those words with the specific definitions are used. No one is disputing that your use of the word is correct, just somewhat arcane. I wonder if there isn't some overlap in the meanings as the quotations I read with the "slovenly" meaning (going back to 1402, bit earlier than 1450) are clearly very derogatory. One from 1621 under the "slovenly" definition seems to me to have echoes of the "hussy" definition: "Women are all day a dressing, to pleasure other men abroad, and go like sluts at home". I know there is here a distinction between dressing to pleasure men and being a slut, in this quotation, but it kind of implies the kind of woman she is, and it isn't just being untidy. But there are quite a few quotations under the "hussy" definition: Here is Fielding in "Joseph Andrews" 1742: " I never knew any of these forward sluts come to good". Your point that slut can be used jokingly is also justified by the OED, but we are getting away from the point: "Slut" is an English word!

I think people make the common mistake of assuming a woman who likes to wear sexy clothes is somehow more 'available', than ones who don't. It is not helped by the fact prostitutes dress as sexily as they can to solicit custom.

Thus a lot of the anger about being labelled a 'slut' because of wearing revealing clothing is to do with the concommittant assumption you have loose morals. Indeed, I am sure many women who could be labelled sluts, in the sense of being immodest in clothing were also generous in their sexual favours. Hence you get jealous boyfriends and husbands telling their female partners to 'cover up'.

I don't see that a woman who dresses in a sexy way is necessarily at all promiscuous. Being promiscuous is completely different.

 

[Stacyhs]

Good writers do not do that. English language doesn't like repetition.

Charles Dickens being a great writer obviously had a different meaning in mind for 'slut' than 'hussy'.

ROTFLMAO! Good writers don't do that? Then Charles Dickens is not a good writer under your definition:

The Oxford English dictionary serves up a variety of cringe-inducing examples, from the 1621 work "The Anatomy of Melancholy," which refers to "a peevish drunken flurt, a waspish cholerick slut," to a character in Charles Dickens' "The Life and Adventures of Nicholas Nickleby" calling another a "slut, a hussy, an impudent artful hussy!"

https://www.livescience.com/18864-slut-limbaugh-controversy.html

So much for your other claim that its use as a derogatory word for a loose woman is from modern mass media.

Why can't you just admit for once you were wrong and stop this pitiful nonsense?