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Cont: JFK Conspiracy Theories VI: Lyndon Johnson's Revenge

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manifesto said:
Not before the Dorman cop reach the intersection, no = McLain couldn’t possibly have seen her on the trunk standing still halfway through Houston.
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That was not your contention, and it doesn't matter if the Dorman MC was McLain or anybody. The stuck mike was not at the scene of the assassination, something I suggested many pages before and yo ignored it. Now others with more modern techniques and going or all the testimony, listening to all the tape precludes any open mike in Dealey Plaza.
Show me how Myers could have used ”epipolar geometry” when synchronizing Hughes with Zapruder without overlapping sequenses.

It is impossible.
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But there are overlapping sequences, you just refuse to understand or how it is done.
No you did not. Show me. Link.
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I'm currently but, but rest assure I link it this afternoon.
How do you know that?
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See above.
It is not a corpse dude, you are. It is scientific proof of five rifle shots, four from behind and one, the fatal, from in front on the knoll.

I’m still waiting for any of you to prove me wrong.
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You sling insults well but ad hominem.
 
manifesto said:
Wrong. I have to show that McLain within a reasonable time frame COULD have reached the spot for picking up the sound from the first shot
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You have yet to fulfill this requirement.

There is nothing in the visual record that supports McLain being at any of the microphone positions. Not in any of the films, not in any of the photographs.

There is also nothing in the testimonial evidence supporting McLain being at any of the microphone positions.

Simply shifting the burden of proof doesn't get the job done.
 
bknight said:
Here is my full quote for the viewers

Where in my sentence that I called this video scientific? No it was your comment concerning Myer's scientific method of creating a synchronization of the available films. No this video is a shoddy attempt by some CT to dream up a solution to the problem of having the MC officer in the correct location for the acoustical analysis by BBN to work.

No I stand by my statement the video is a fabrication and my interpretation also.

I suggest you quit the condescending tone in your comments to the rest of us, it doesn't belong.
The step by step is a long report, do you wish it represented here? or perhaps a start from here as I indicated. This image is before any shots fired and indicates where the VPSS car is about to turn onto Elm, viewed in both Zapruder and Hughes, along with the video you presented.
There have been many I listed two sources that debunk the acoustical studies far back in the thread, you ignored them.


The Acoustic study was accomplished very scientifically, but it had one caveat that the open mic had to be at position four to work properly with the algorithms that were used. I have no issue with the algorithms since I don't know what they are, I'll just take it on face value. Using the testimony of officer McLain that Axeman300 gave us, there is no way the McLain or any other office was at or close to the last position when the shots rang out.
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Now do you see, and this is only the last post that I made that no MC was at or near the BBN array locations when the shots rang out.
 
Manifesto, I am sorry, but I think you dismiss certain terms out of hand, without being able to show that you know what they mean, and I’m not sure you are answering the questions being asked.

In your own words, without quoting the test itself, explain tye “scientific findings” of the test:

Did the test first establish the location of the microphone then identify pulses that were rifle shots, then test those shots match the location?

Or did it first identify likely rifle shots, then establish the location of the microphone to validate those shots?

Or did it establish first, the likely gunshots, then deduce the circumstances that were required for those pulses to be gunshots based on how they best matched the topography?

Then explain how much wriggle room you think there is for the location of the microphone. Is it meters? Tens of meters? Hundreds?

How much do you think the probability changes in this wriggle room? A few percent? A fraction of a percent? Tens of percent?
 
manifesto said:
If you are calling the two world leading teams in ballistic acoustics ”idiots” you really have to explain why.

- They provided the eyes and ears to US Navy’s nuclear submarines.

- They provided the systems (Boomerang) for US soldiers to be able to detect snipers in real time during urban warefare.

Idiots?
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Technically I was referring to CTists who always demand a new investigation because the actual investigation's findings doesn't support their world view.

In this case, the HSCA's team made an assessment based on incorrect data from an unreliable medium.

Incorrect Data:

McLain was not where he needed to be to make their finds work. He was over on Houston Street.

It has never been proven that the recording is from McLain's radio.

The voice communications alone destroy the timing of events, and call into question the validity of the recording as applied to the acoustic testing.

Cheering is audible on the tape, motorcycles are audible on the tape, and sirens are audible on the tape.

Gunfire is not audible on the tape.

They wrote a program to support "impulses = gunshots" and that's where they failed. You can buy software similar to the program used in 1977 to use on your laptop today. GHOST HUNTERS USE IT ALL THE TIME FOR EVP's. Which suggests a problem with the software. Here's the thing: ghosts aren't real, and they don't talk into microphones, but the software says they do.

Uh oh.

What happens is the program is forced to make sense of faint random sounds and shape it into an identifiable sound. This is one of the huge problems with digital over analog. They fed a poor analog source into a digital format (and that was 1977 so you know it sucked) and got the results they had programmed for in advance.

You're betting all your money on a failed piece of work.
 
jeffas69 said:
LOL. Saw that the other day! I was going to say this proves Maclain was out of position, but clearly they are talking about a different officer Macain. I wonder if he is related to the senator and the admiral. That will put a new spin on everything.
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None of the photos released, is there still outstanding images withheld?

But If McLain would have been out of position!
 
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Axxman300 said:
Cheering is audible on the tape, motorcycles are audible on the tape, and sirens are audible on the tape.

Gunfire is not audible on the tape.
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No cheering on the open mic portion that I could recognize. Crowd noises are apparent on other transmissions earlier in the motorcade according to the transcripts.

There are also no apparent screams, "O my god", "What in tarnation was that!" during the supposed open mic through Dealey.

As to the Gunfire, from what I read they were trying to say that the decibel levels of the shots were over the limits of the equipment and were "compressed". I have not yet found any demonstration of this on the test fire recordings.

In my understanding of clipping there is still a peak that would look cut off at the tops. I may be misunderstanding what is shown however.

Add these problems to the sirens apparent doppler, the fact that the motorcade officers were all supposed to be on channel two and your have a lot to overcome.

IMHO you could produce a new found photo of Maclain in the right spot and I still would not believe his mic was open.
 
jeffas69 said:
As to the Gunfire, from what I read they were trying to say that the decibel levels of the shots were over the limits of the equipment and were "compressed". I have not yet found any demonstration of this on the test fire recordings.
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I was just wondering about this. Aside from the frequency of the echo patterns that they supposedly matched, did the actual intensities of the sounds match? The shots are not audible on the recording. Were they audible on the test recordings, too? Or did they have to scale the intensities to match the dictabelt?

Did the sounds get "compressed" on the test recording, too?
 
There are a couple of other things I would like to mention.

1 Officer McLain states that he heard the call over his radio to proceed to Parkland Hospital. If that is true, then his radio could not have had an open mic. You cannot hear any received signals on a transceiver when the transmitter is firing. Now I haven't looked it up, but does anyone know what channel and frequency the open mic was on (1 or 2), and what channel HB McLain would have been switched to, because if they are not the same, then that would be another indication that HB McLain was not the source of the open mic.

2. manifesto carelessly tosses the term "Epipolar Geometry" around, and does so clearly without any actual understanding of what it means or how it is used. Epipolar Geometry in its simplest form is "triangulation" and is used by VFX technicians to seamlessly match computer generated imagery with live action footage. It is not used for synchronising two different films. That is done literally the way I did it with the Hughes and Zapruder films, by finding overlapping frames of reference and pinpointing identifiable moving features in the two frames (in my case, the white SS hard-top). I did this roughly by eyeball (good enough for our purposes here) ... Dale Myers did it by painstakingly comparing images from the films frame by frame, and he using a lot more moving features that I did, and he did this with NINE films (Hughes, Muchmore, Dorman, Nix, Towner, Bell, Martin, Bronson and Zapruder). I did it with just two!
 
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bknight said:
Axxman300

You will clearly get a laugh out of this one 2:49. Have fun

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NhTKvoOqINo
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Bwhwhwhwa! That is hilarious... officer McCain? I don't remember his name on the list of motorcycle cops on motorcade escort duty that day.

Its almost as nutty as some of the yootoober comments (JFK shot by the limo driver... I mean W the actual F)
 
traxy said:
The cop in the Dorman film arrives at the intersection after Z411. She's already on the trunk.
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Not according to your pal, Dale Myers:
In conclusion, the Dorman sequence D456-D496, depicting McLain’s arrival at the corner of Elm and Houston, synchronizes to the period 2.84 to 5.25 seconds after the last shot; the equivalent of Zapruder frames Z365 to Z409. [Exhibit 77] Consequently, Robert Groden’s claim that the Dorman sequence showed McLain arriving at the Elm and Houston corner at the time of the first shot – just as the acoustic evidence had predicted – is demonstratively false.​
Are you now suddenly disputing Myers’ ’science’?

Nearly everything McLain has said has been corroborated independently by other officers in the area and is fully supported by the visual record.
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Has it now? Courson is testifying that he arrives at the intersection at the same time that Mrs. Kennedy is climbing up on the limo trunk = the Dorman cop.

And, IF McLain is the Dorman cop, how can he at the same time being standing still halfway on Houston seeing Mrs. Kennedy on the limo trunk? That is, how can he be at two places at the same time?

You have yet to provide evidence that McLain could have plausibly been at ALL 4 microphone markers at the appropriate times. We're all patiently waiting.
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IF McLain could have been at the spot for picking up the sound from the first shot, all the rest of the FIVE SHOTS falls neatly in place.

That is, you have to prove that he couldn’t possibly have been at the right place of said first shot.

So far you haven’t done so.

Anything else?
 
smartcooky said:
I'm not running away from anything, I am confronting YOU head on and you are failing miserably.
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Lol.

Oh yes, I can have both, and you are wrong, the facts do not contradict. It is perfectly possible for Officer McLain to be the Motorcycle cop turning into Houston on the Hughes film and then a number of seconds later, for him to be the same Motorcycle cop just about to turn into Elm on the Dorman film. This is so elementary that I struggle to understand how anyone with an ounce of intelligence cannot understand.
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Ah, trying to reframe the question again, are we?

No, the question still is how McLain kan be standing still halfway on Houston seeing Mrs. Kennedy on the trunk while at the same time arriving at the Houston/Elm intersection when same Mrs. Kennedy still haven’t climed up on the trunk.

Since this impossible you have to make up your mind. Was McLain the Dorman cop or was he at that time standing still halfway on Houston?

You can’t have both. Chose ONE.

As has been pointed out several times to you, you are COMPLETELY WRONG about when Jackie starts to climb on the trunk. I'll explain this in baby steps for you so that you can follow, although you will need to do a few sums... I hope you will be able manage that.

1. McLain comes around the corner of Main and Houston 2.4 seconds after H648 (the frame in which the white SS car can be seen about to turn into Elm

2. The same white SS car can be seen turning into Elm on Z162 so McLain would be in Houston at about Z210.

3. Most interpretations put the first (missed) shot at somewhere between Z140 and Z162 (the point at which James Tague is struck by a piece of flying cement while standing under the end of the triple underpass). McLain will have missed hearing the first shot.

4. The second shot (Z-220-228) could have been heard by McLain. That is between 0.5 (Z220-210=10/18.3) and 0.9 (Z228-210=18/18.3) seconds after he turns into Houston.

5. However, it is most likely that it was the third (fatal) shot he heard. This was at Z312 (no one disputes this) so that is 5.6 (Z312-210=142/18.3) seconds after he turns into Houston. At the speed that the vehicles were travelling along Houston - 8.5 mph (12.5 fps), it takes over 9.2 seconds to traverse the 115 feet from the corner of Main & Houston to the corner of Houston & Elm.

6. Jackie was halfway up the trunk at Z356, that is 7.9 seconds after McLain turned onto Houston. So he would have seen her before reaching the corner of Houston and Elm even if he didn't stop. Add in the stop, and its even longer

7. Any way you slice it, all three shots were fired by the time McLain was 2/3 of the way down Houston. He could not possibly have been in position to record those gunshots
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It is really simple, smartcooky, you have to explain how McLain could have arrived at the intersection at Z-356 (Dorman cop) while at the same time be standing still further behind on the middle of Houston.

Do it. Explain.

You're right, he testified that the Motorcyle Cop in H648 was him.
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No one is disputing that.

However he later stated that he stopped.
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Exactly, he changed his mind when he realized that his sworn testimony supported the acoustic evidence and therefore scientific evidence of a conspiracy in the assassination of JFK.

People who change their minds are not necessarily lying.
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Yes they are if they do it because they discover that their first sworn testimony supports a chain of event not to their liking.

As was explicitly stated by McLain.

Have you ever been asked something that you couldn't remember at the time, but suddenly you remember minutes, hours or even days later? Does that mean you were lying when you said you originally said you didn't remember?

People change their minds all the time. Ask any LEO and they will tell you that a good interviewer can get people to remember things they didn't previously remember. Its call "jogging the memory".
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The question is WHY they are changing their mind and in the case of McLain there is no need of speculating, he state it himself.

So, what version of events are you supporting?

1. McLain is the Dorman cop.

2. McLain stops halfway through Houston.

You can’t have both. Which is it?
 
manifesto said:
Not according to your pal, Dale Myers:
In conclusion, the Dorman sequence D456-D496, depicting McLain’s arrival at the corner of Elm and Houston, synchronizes to the period 2.84 to 5.25 seconds after the last shot; the equivalent of Zapruder frames Z365 to Z409. [Exhibit 77] Consequently, Robert Groden’s claim that the Dorman sequence showed McLain arriving at the Elm and Houston corner at the time of the first shot – just as the acoustic evidence had predicted – is demonstratively false.​
Are you now suddenly disputing Myers’ ’science’?
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A line-of-sight drawn between the motorcycle officer’s position at D496/Z411 and the limousine at that same moment proves the officer would have to be looking backward across the reflecting pool retaining wall and numerous other obstructions which make up the decorative structure at the southwest corner of Elm and Houston.

It is also apparent that at the speed the motorcycle officer is traveling (7.9 mph, as shown on pages 93-94 of my 2007 report), the officer wouldn’t clear the retaining wall structures until Zapruder frame Z431 – after Mrs. Kennedy had climbed back into the limousine.

http://jfkfiles.blogspot.ca/2008/04/photographic-proof-hb-mclain-and_9100.html?m=1

manifesto said:
And, IF McLain is the Dorman cop, how can he at the same time being standing still halfway on Houston seeing Mrs. Kennedy on the limo trunk? That is, how can he be at two places at the same time?
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McLain stops halfway down Houston street (corroborated by Courson and Baker), hears the shot, sees pigeons fly off of the Depository roof directly in front of him (corroborated by Baker), starts rolling towards the intersection of Elm and Houston. At some point he sees Jackie Kennedy climb onto the trunk through the park.

This isn't rocket science.

McLains interview where he mentions seeing Jackie on the trunk was done 35 years after the incident.

manifesto said:
IF McLain could have been at the spot for picking up the sound from the first shot, all the rest of the FIVE SHOTS falls neatly in place.
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Great, now all you have to do is provide evidence independent of Thomas's analysis that proves it possible. So far you haven't.

You've tried, you went radio silent for over a day, and you came back with nothing.

...any time now...
 
bknight said:
Are there any images yet to be released?
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I don't think so. Hank would be the guy to ask.

The only photographs that are off limits are from the autopsy, I think all of the Warren Commission, HSCA, FBI, and DBD pictures are out there.

I'm willing to bet that there are a few photographs, and 8mm films collecting dust in attics all over Dallas/Fort Worth/west Texas waiting to be discovered. It is possible that the "Missing" files could turn up in a garage of a former CIA or FBI officer as well. Who knows what has been discretely passed along to the Kennedy Family by concerned citizens over the decades?

This case especially will continue to dribble bits and pieces for the rest of this century.
 
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